Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...

[Storker]

Too many divers behave like sheep in the water, just following someone else with presumably more experience and with an expectation that person will keep them safe...

I'm pretty certain that there's quite a bit of difference between divers who are used to just follow a DM like yet another sheep in a flock, and divers who are used to dive in independent pairs with no DM to shepherd them. And that nearly everyone of the "too many" divers belong to the first group.

I belong to the second group, and I thoroughly dislike being herded by a DM. Having a competent guide who points out all the cool stuff, on the other hand...

 

[KenGordon]

During this drill, the diver with gas, did everything she was trained to do

She is trained to take a regulator. I quoted the manual. She is not trained to not donate, just to expect donation. What were you doing helping an instructor as the active party? Unless the instructor was trying to make the ‘discuss’ point to the student.

Misrepresentation of the point is sometimes used to beat BSAC.

 

[Bob DBF]

I go to hotels with swimming pools now and again. Sometimes I stay on high floors. In the event I fell off my balcony I could aim for the pool.

Maybe I should practice that so when it happens for real I have a better chance.

If you spend your time pacing on the balcony hand rail, you might consider it.

I am not advocating all beach goers practice a CSEA, only divers that may need it to save their own lives. Its the divers choice, considering how dangerous some say it is, I'd like to do it right when needed.


Bob

 

[KenGordon]

If you spend your time pacing on the balcony hand rail, you might consider it.

I am not advocating all beach goers practice a CSEA, only divers that may need it to save their own lives. Its the divers choice, considering how dangerous some say it is, I'd like to do it right when needed.


Bob

Being serious though, there is risk involved in practicing.

It is a very low probability event and there other, very low to zero risk mitigations. So the question is, if group A practiced it until perfect do you expect more injury due to practice that in a group B, that did no practice, due to failure in technique when the low probability event actually occurs?

And further, is group A going to take assume more risk of the event happening since they have an effective mitigation?

People don’t run out of gas for no reason. I think it is better to address the reasons than risk injury practicing for a contingency that can be prevented.

 

[Jay]

(The reason the hose came off was all my own fault - I have my hoses finger tight and hadn't' checked them pre dive because I was rushing - learn from me!)

Is there a reason for using finger tightness? minimise wear & tear?

 

[Diving Dubai]

Is there a reason for using finger tightness? minimise wear & tear?

For deco diving. If I had an issue with a second stage underwater I could swap them over and complete the deco

 

[Neilwood]

I'm pretty certain that there's quite a bit of difference between divers who are used to just follow a DM like yet another sheep in a flock, and divers who are used to dive in independent pairs with no DM to shepherd them. And that nearly everyone of the "too many" divers belong to the first group.

I belong to the second group, and I thoroughly dislike being herded by a DM. Having a competent guide who points out all the cool stuff, on the other hand...

I think that part of that differentiation between "flock divers" and independent divers is down to local conditions when trained as well as the instructors' viewpoint.

Divers trained for cold waters tend to have the need to operate as independent self reliant groups in conditions which preclude "herd dives" such as visibility below 5m and often significantly lower than that. Divers tend to go out to sites as small groups of 2/3.
Warm water trained divers are normally trained for blue water where visibility is measured in middle to high double digits where a DM can see and be seen from much larger distances. A lot of warm water divers are done as group dives where all divers follow the leader.

Instructors in cold water tend to instil more discipline into their divers because it is needed. A buddy gap of 3-5m in warm clear water is no issue whereas the same buddy gap in cold water could often mean a lost buddy.

 

[johndiver999]

Being serious though, there is risk involved in practicing.

It is a very low probability event and there other, very low to zero risk mitigations. So the question is, if group A practiced it until perfect do you expect more injury due to practice that in a group B, that did no practice, due to failure in technique when the low probability event actually occurs?

And further, is group A going to take assume more risk of the event happening since they have an effective mitigation?

People don’t run out of gas for no reason. I think it is better to address the reasons than risk injury practicing for a contingency that can be prevented.

If you are referring to running out or low on gas at depth, sipping the remaing air and going up is not that hard because the tank will continue to deliver air on ascent.

I view cesa as a second to last option that might be needed if a reg hose popped or the reg failed catastrophically. Those types of occurances are more serious and possibly less avoidable than simply inattentiveness toward an spg.

I think the drill is intended primarily to address gear failures rather than diver error. This is not a trivial distinction because diligence in watch a gage may not relate to gear failure.

 

[Kharon]

... What if as soon as they had a failure, instead of looking for a buddy just start immediately doing a CESA? ...

What if, as soon as you have a failure, you spit your reg out and grab the reg on your pony, purge it and stick it in your mouth and breathe?

What if you service your regs or have them serviced so there is no failure?

What if you monitor your gas?

 

[Storker]

A buddy gap of 3-5m in warm clear water is no issue

Unless you have just breathed out, found out the hard way that your reg isn't delivering gas any more, and what you see of your buddy is their fins, happily moving up and down. I believe that a buddy gap of some 3-5m easily could be a bit of an issue in that situation, no matter the vis or temperature.

whereas the same buddy gap in cold water could would often mean a lost buddy.

FTFY