Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...

[rsingler]

Read post post #20 and the description of a CESA.

Which is not, in fact, a CESA but rather an Emergency Buoyant Ascent.
As taught by both PADI and SSI, one technique or the other is applicable depending upon OOA depth.
PADI requires the CESA to be performed in training from 20-30 ft. SSI trains the buoyant ascent in shallow confined water.
Given the OP, coupled with the state of divers' equipment that comes in for service these days, I'd suggest that neither @couv 's Regulator Checklist nor OOA drills are used much.

 

[Zef]

Why not both? When all your options are gone, whether from lack of training, preparation or practice, why not know how to properly do a CESA? It's not either-or.

Never said a CESA should not be taught, trained, or practiced. I just don't think a lot of time should be spent on it.

here is an anecdote from a discussion I had with A retired Navy Seal commander:
We were white water kayaking together on a regular basis and it was about 2 hours each way to the nearest river worth paddling. I had the opportunity to ask him lots of questions about the training the SEALS do and I had mentioned once that in the American public's mind the Navy SEALs are like American ninjas and inquired about how much hand to hand combat training they do.

He responded that in his experience they typically spend 2% or less of their time training in hand to hand combat and any SEAL that has more training than that is obtaining/conducting that training on their own.

I inquired why, and he said something along the lines of..."think about our primary mission (reconnaissance), if we are in a gun fight where we are exchanging bullets with the enemy then things have gone really wrong....if we run out bullets and have to fight hand to hand things have gone even worse."

In my mind the same thing applies to CESA...it is an important skill to know but there are so many more important skills that one should be drilling to ensure that one never arrives in the "even worse" situation where one would need to rely on it.

Despite the fact that a CESA was conducted sucessfully from great depths does not diminish the danger of practicing the technique, nor does it diminish the danger present when one is in a challenging situation to actually need to employ the technique in an effort to save one's own life.

-Z

 

[Bigeclipse]

Which is not, in fact, a CESA but rather an Emergency Buoyant Ascent.
As taught by both PADI and SSI, one technique or the other is applicable depending upon OOA depth.
PADI requires the CESA to be performed in training from 20-30 ft. SSI trains the buoyant ascent in shallow confined water.
Given the OP, coupled with the state of divers' equipment that comes in for service these days, I'd suggest that neither @couv 's Regulator Checklist nor OOA drills are used much.

As the OP I can assure that the diver dove one prior dive that day and 2 the day before and obviously his gear worked then. That being said, as i stated, his stuff was not serviced in an extremely long time. 100% his fault and 100% avoidable.

 

[Storker]

Not an excuse I'm afraid. Think. How much "real estate" does your BCD have with which to attach your alternate reg? And its got a nice fat hose attached.
To be frank and blunt, simply and calmly running your hands over you gear and you should easily find it. This isn't an equipment issue, it's a skills issue.

Well...

When I got a back inflate BCD to check if that was for me, I did a shakedown/test dive at our regular training site. The right shoulder d-ring was located somewhat differently than I was used to with my then current poodle jacket. When my buddy and I did the OOG drill during our safety stop, I wasn't able to locate my octo, so I chose to donate my primary, knowing I had at least a minute to locate my secondary.

These days, my config is long hose, primary donate. That particular incident was one of the reasons I switched to that config.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Well...

When I got a back inflate BCD to check if that was for me, I did a shakedown/test dive at our regular training site. The right shoulder d-ring was located somewhat differently than I was used to with my then current poodle jacket. When my buddy and I did the OOG drill during our safety stop, I wasn't able to locate my octo, so I chose to donate my primary, knowing I had at least a minute to locate my secondary.

These days, my config is long hose, primary donate. That particular incident was one of the reasons I switched to that config.

Personally I run my hands over my gear during the descent to double check for my personal stupidity.

However in your case you proved that you were confident to hand over the working reg while you found your alt and it was no real drama

 

[Bob DBF]

Which is not, in fact, a CESA but rather an Emergency Buoyant Ascent.

My point exactly, there is a difference which is not discerned by the author, and the confusion can have unintended consequences.


Bob

 

[dmaziuk]

My point exactly, there is a difference which is not discerned by the author, and the confusion can have unintended consequences.

I suspect the point is those of us who regularly do 100-feet breathholding swims, do them at 3 times 60 fpm. Gear would of course slow you down some, but still... OTOH at the "safe" 30 fpm the ascent will take 3 minutes, and according to what @rsingler says the urge to breathe will be about the same whether you start with 4 bars in your lungs or just one. I think we're talking serious freediving skills here and the assertion that "about any diver can do that" is a tad optimistic.

Even if I theoretically can last 3 minutes, screw that: on a regular leisurely recreational dive I'd rather take my chances with DCS than with urge to breathe.

 

[Bob DBF]

OTOH at the "safe" 30 fpm the ascent will take 3 minutes..

Safe ascent speed is less than 60fpm, 30fpm with a safety stop being optimal, so approximately one and one half minutes for 100' CESA. It depends on the casulty, but during a simple OOA one can get a breath or more on the way up, so the ascent isn't necessarily on one breath.



Bob

 

[Vicko]

Sorry for the misuse of the term. I would then say that a CESA from those depths is going to end up with a fatality in most divers, as it will take 2-3 minutes and as a freediver I know most people can't survive that, now matter how much the air in their lungs expands, you can't increase the oxygen percentage in there no matter how much the volume changes, as you ascend the PPo2 is going to drop and the person will have a Shallow Water Blackout. So I think that what happened to the person in the story is an emergency buoyant ascent and not a CESA.

Edit: To note from personal experience every person I have seen bolt for the surface has spat out their regulator and none of them had a out of air emergency, just a moment of panick and bad training.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Sorry for the misuse of the term. I would then say that a CESA from those depths is going to end up with a fatality in most divers, as it will take 2-3 minutes and as a freediver I know most people can't survive that, now matter how much the air in their lungs expands, you can't increase the oxygen percentage in there no matter how much the volume changes, as you ascend the PPo2 is going to drop and the person will have a Shallow Water Blackout. So I think that what happened to the person in the story is an emergency buoyant ascent and not a CESA.

Edit: To note from personal experience every person I have seen bolt for the surface has spat out their regulator and none of them had a out of air emergency, just a moment of panick and bad training.

well both of those divers did that CESA at 100ft...one was an overweight 64 year old man and the other was a 26 year old in extremely good shape kid. So both either got extremely lucky due to it being early in the dive OR CESA from 100ft is not as"big" of a deal as some make it out to be? Again, I am NOT stating we should be doing 100ft CESAs...just making some observations. I do know in the 70s and 80s, it was a practice of some divers to CESA to end their dive (i.e. run out of air on purpose and then CESA to the surface).