Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...

[Zef]

OR...

...One can adopt more sound dive practices and avoid being in the position to have to chase one's dive partner or take seriously overt action to obtain their attention.

-Z

 

[Neilwood]

I was just thinking about something which happened to 2 divers I know. It was an OOA situation. The non-OOA diver was pretty experienced but this was their first out of air incident and the OOA diver was pretty new to diving (just got Advanced open water diver). So let me describe the dive. We were diving a cold deep dive (which I understand some argue against anyways). The depth was right at about 95ft and the bottom temps about 45F so we are talking 7mil suits or drysuits. it is a wreck dive with a decent line that goes to the wreck. We all get to the bottom of the line (4 of us, two buddy pairs). Everyone flashes the ok sign so my buddy and I proceed first to the wreck while the other 2 follow behind us. We get to the wreck and I notice the other two are not there so im thinking maybe they are checking out a different part of the wreck (the site is a big circle so im thinking they went right while we went left). This lake has about 20ft of visibility. Anyways, it turns out that the recently certified diver's regulator failed and he was getting mouthfull of water with every breath, and his backup reg did the same! (we found out later that he had not had them serviced since he purchased them and they were very old regs so who knows when they were last serviced!) All his previous dives that weekend were in warmer shallower water so im thinking the cold and depth contributed to the failure and why they functioned on the other more shallow dives. Fortunately they both survived and told us the story. When his regs failed he looked to his buddy and signaled OOA! That buddy immediately took the reg in his mouth and donated it to him allowing him to get a breath but in the panic of it all he could not find his spare regulator so signaled back to the OOA person to give it back so he could get another breath. The OOA person then decided to simply do an emergency CESA to the surface. It was a bloody mess and they are both fortunate to be ok. Needless to say, he got new regulators and now on every dive they practice OOA drills and such (assuming they have extra air and time to do so).

This all got me thinking...unless you have OOA procedures basically burned into muscle memory, would it just be better to do a CESA? The reason I say this is what if the OOA person didnt find that buddy right away, thus spending a little more time down below and when they go to do a CESA end up drowning on the way up? What if as soon as they had a failure, instead of looking for a buddy just start immediately doing a CESA? Of course you dont want to shoot to the surface either, due to embolisms and such but I think most people could probably CESA from 100ft and be ok, assuming they had the last breath of air to do so. This is all speaking in terms of rec diving and not tech diving where deco is an issue. For me, I only have one dive buddy that I trust. We do many drills all the time. If he is not available to dive and I dive with others, I treat it like a solo dive and prepare as such. (Honestly, I tend to dive sidemount doubles OR sling a 40cu on rec dives. I like to be overly cautious)

IMHO CESA should be an absolute last resort especially from that depth and only used to prevent imminent death. There are potential health issues in performing a CESA that should not be ignored. As the non OOA diver still had plenty of air it should not have been required.

There are three problems here:
1) Equipment - not fit for purpose as it hadn't been serviced. Personally I prefer to have my air available down there so will make sure that my regs are functional by getting them serviced and performing a few quick checks on a regular basis as per this link
2) Lack of familiarity with kit - both divers showed a lack of familiarity with their kit. There should be no need to fumble about looking for an octo - you should always be aware of where it has been stowed and it should have been briefed during buddy checks
3) Lack of skills - The non OOA diver should always know where the octo is and how it should be deployed both on their kit and their buddies. The non OOA diver should be able to put their hand on that reg and deploy it even with poor/zero vis and this skill should be practised. I wonder how many people actually practise the lost reg/deployment of octo drills that they were taught in OW training.

The only absolute emergency in diving is being OOA therefore OOA procedures SHOULD be burned in to muscle memory and practised on a regular basis. It should be a reflex action to reach for and deploy your back up reg with no fumbling or thought.

 

[Diving Dubai]

*Snip*

This all got me thinking...unless you have OOA procedures basically burned into muscle memory

The issue I see ALL the time, including with experienced divers, is a huge lack of confidence with reg exchange.

They can do the skill, they know the mechanics off by heart - they have the muscle memory, but when they don't have a reg in their mouth they get flustered.

It shouldn't' be so. When I demonstrate reg remove and recover, going slowly and smoothly it takes over a minute. I'm over 50 and smoke its not hard

So divers need to practice and be comfortable with reg exchange and make themselves practice solving a problem (like finding a reg) while not havign a reg in their mouth (preferably in a pool, shallow water or with a buddy that has a spare reg in their hand)

A couple of months back I was moochign around at 35m (115') and there was a loud noise and no air coming from the reg in my mouth. No drama (I was on SM) unclip my second reg, spt out the none working one, purge, breath and then carry out a shut down to stop the noise. After that recover the second stage I'd spat out onto the sand 10m below me, screw it back on, open the cylinder, test and carry on diving (at the end of the weekend have the first stage stripped and flushed.

(The reason the hose came off was all my own fault - I have my hoses finger tight and hadn't' checked them pre dive because I was rushing - learn from me!)

None of this was a drama if I couldn't' have immediately solved the problem then I'd have gone to my buddy to get air while I finished solving the problem.

So people need to practice and be confident in not having a reg in and finding their alt or swimming to a buddy and doing it all calmly, so that if there is a real situation you brain can concentrate on dealing with the situation rather than being hindered or overwhelmed by panic.

The basic skills are taught in OW but if not practiced, people's ability to carry them out smoothly will deteriorate rapidly. If you can't carry out the basic skills smoothly and easily then practice until you can

 

[Bigeclipse]

If one finds themself in an OOA situation it typically is not when they receive a last breath of air form their tank...it is when they go to get a breath of air and find there is nothing left.

Everything you described in your post begs one to pay attention to their buddy and their pressure gauge. While a CESA is a good technique to know, it is inherently dangerous. One should have an innate awareness of how to share air and how their life support equipment is setup/situated on their body to avoid having to employ such a technique.

In my opinion, If you are diving and your buddy is more than 2 arms lengths away, you are doing it wrong. If you descend as a group and half the group goes one way and the other half another, and you were not expecting that, then the dive brief you gave or received was insufficient. If you run out of air, barring a catastrophic failure of your 1st stage or an LP hose, it is because you are negligent about managing your own gas supply. If you can't find your octo when you or your buddy needs it then you are a danger to your self and/or of no help to your buddy when the s&%t starts hitting the fan.

It is ridiculous how often I see people's octos and pressure gauges dangling or trailing behind them. The instructors I have come across who teach basic OW tend to not correct this and so their students don't know to care.

Go back and review your OW manual. You would be surprised that just about everything that you mention is addressed in one form or another.

-Z

While I agree with everything you are saying I am trying to state that when an emergency happens to a novice or even a moderately trained diver, what typically happens is PANIC. Heck we all grew up swimming and what do you do when out of breath in a pool? You shoot to the surface. So my point was, if you do not have all these skills engraved into your mind, then the body is going to tell you to shoot to the surface. Maybe training more on CESAs would be a good thing as how many people do a CESA in a panic and end up with an embolism (maybe survive maybe die)? Again, not advocating to go away from the buddy system and like I stated my buddy and myself practice OOA situations all the time so I do believe we would be fine in an OOA situation but the reality is all new divers likely do not practice OOA situations after they get certified which is bad so maybe a little more training on CESA during certification would be better? I duno, just thoughts I had.

 

[Bigeclipse]

IMHO CESA should be an absolute last resort especially from that depth and only used to prevent imminent death. There are potential health issues in performing a CESA that should not be ignored. As the non OOA diver still had plenty of air it should not have been required.

There are three problems here:
1) Equipment - not fit for purpose as it hadn't been serviced. Personally I prefer to have my air available down there so will make sure that my regs are functional by getting them serviced and performing a few quick checks on a regular basis as per this link
2) Lack of familiarity with kit - both divers showed a lack of familiarity with their kit. There should be no need to fumble about looking for an octo - you should always be aware of where it has been stowed and it should have been briefed during buddy checks
3) Lack of skills - The non OOA diver should always know where the octo is and how it should be deployed both on their kit and their buddies. The non OOA diver should be able to put their hand on that reg and deploy it even with poor/zero vis and this skill should be practised. I wonder how many people actually practise the lost reg/deployment of octo drills that they were taught in OW training.

The only absolute emergency in diving is being OOA therefore OOA procedures SHOULD be burned in to muscle memory and practised on a regular basis. It should be a reflex action to reach for and deploy your back up reg with no fumbling or thought.

I forgot to mention the non-OOA diver's octo was attached by a deck hand to a different part of their BC (it was dangling prior to jumping off the boat so the deck hand stopped him and clipped it off). That has it's own issues in itself. I would never let a deck hand clip my stuff to a spot it normal is not clipped to.

 

[Neilwood]

I forgot to mention the non-OOA diver's octo was attached by a deck hand to a different part of their BC (it was dangling prior to jumping off the boat so the deck hand stopped him and clipped it off). That has it's own issues in itself. I would never let a deck hand clip my stuff to a spot it normal is not clipped to.

Still a lack of familiarity with kit/skills issue to me. The person clearly does not consider the item important enough to warrant it being set up properly and discussed during a pre dive briefing. Had the octo been in the correct place and the correct brief/ kit check been carried out (BWRAF, GUE EDGE etc) it would not have been dangling or affixed in the "wrong" place.

I make a point of my set up being EXACTLY the same every dive with regards to the important stuff such as octo position, releases, cutters etc. That will be briefed to my buddy unless we have dived before and are familiar enough with each other's kit (the kit check will still be done in htis case but probably not the briefing part).

It is worthwhile occasionally doing a blind (eyes shut/black out mask etc) test of your gear to ensure that, even in low/no vis, you can find and deploy the important parts such as octo, cutter/shears, torch, releases etc. No need for a special dive for it - on any dive just mentally select a bit of gear, close your eyes and deploy it (you don't even need to close your eyes - just make sure you can deploy it while looking elsewhere such as straight ahead). Being able to do this in the course of a dive without losing trim or buoyancy control is good practise.

 

[IncreaseMyT]

I don't spend much time looking for my buddy in open water, if it's time to go up, it's time to go up.

 

[Zef]

While I agree with everything you are saying I am trying to state that when an emergency happens to a novice or even a moderately trained diver, what typically happens is PANIC. Heck we all grew up swimming and what do you do when out of breath in a pool? You shoot to the surface. So my point was, if you do not have all these skills engraved into your mind, then the body is going to tell you to shoot to the surface. Maybe training more on CESAs would be a good thing as how many people do a CESA in a panic and end up with an embolism (maybe survive maybe die)? Again, not advocating to go away from the buddy system and like I stated my buddy and myself practice OOA situations all the time so I do believe we would be fine in an OOA situation but the reality is all new divers likely do not practice OOA situations after they get certified which is bad so maybe a little more training on CESA during certification would be better? I duno, just thoughts I had.

Doing a CESA is akin to bailing out of an airplane when something goes wrong. It is important to know how to do it but there are so many things that could probably have been done to avoid having to do it in the first place, and there are things one should do before exercising that option. The answer to better aircraft maintenance is not practicing parachute jumping....it is conducting better maintenance and pre-flight checks. The same is true in diving...the answer is not practicing a high risk self-rescue technique that in and of itself can lead to injury...but instead work on the fundamentals that would avoid one putting oneself in the precarious situation underwater to begin with. The mere fact that one is likely to be in a state of panic when one finds themself in the position where they need to execute this technique lends to the danger of the situation.,,,just like if your airplane is going nose down towards mother earth because you ran out of fuel is not the best time to don a parachute and ensure it is on correctly.

More training on CESA would not be better...what would be better is more attention to those things that would prevent the need for a CESA.

The notion that diving using compressed air is similar to swimming in a pool and ones reactions should be or can be similar is a mentality that will lead to injury or death. This is exactly why one goes through training and why those kits sold on tv and the internet that allow one to pump up a tank on their own are really bad ideas.

Everything being discussed here is in the realm of the basic training covered in every OW certifying organization....the notion of "novice" or "moderately trained" is not germane to the discussion in my opinion...if you are out there diving as a certified diver I would hope that, even if you had a ****** instructor that taught you nothing, that you at least made the effort to read your OW course manual where all these things are discussed.

I am ok with having a difference of opinion on this...there is not much one will be able to say that will shift my paradigm to allow me to believe that more focus on how and when to do a CESA will increase safety.

-Z

 

[Fastmarc]

It is worthwhile occasionally doing a blind (eyes shut/black out mask etc) test of your gear to ensure that, even in low/no vis, you can find and deploy the important parts such as octo, cutter/shears, torch, releases etc. No need for a special dive for it - on any dive just mentally select a bit of gear, close your eyes and deploy it (you don't even need to close your eyes - just make sure you can deploy it while looking elsewhere such as straight ahead). Being able to do this in the course of a dive without losing trim or buoyancy control is good practise.

Very sound advice.
On a dive over the weekend, because we were removing a ghost net I had on gloves and used my shear. Finding the shear and deploying it with the tropical gloves on was not a problem, but I couldn't put it back. It took me a while to do so eventually on the safety stop. This was the 1st time I've worn my gloves with my present set up, so this told me I needed to practice deploying and stowing my gears more. Starting on my next dive.
I don't have that issue with my octo since it is a part of my regular routine to switch over to it and clip off my primary at the end of the dive. I do switch and use it at depth some times to make sure it works fine, but I think I should be doing this for every dive too.
Practice, practice, practice...

 

[Zef]

use it at depth some times to make sure it works fine,

IMHO CESA should be an absolute last resort especially from that depth and only used to prevent imminent death. There are potential health issues in performing a CESA that should not be ignored. As the non OOA diver still had plenty of air it should not have been required.

There are three problems here:
1) Equipment - not fit for purpose as it hadn't been serviced. Personally I prefer to have my air available down there so will make sure that my regs are functional by getting them serviced and performing a few quick checks on a regular basis as per this link
2) Lack of familiarity with kit - both divers showed a lack of familiarity with their kit. There should be no need to fumble about looking for an octo - you should always be aware of where it has been stowed and it should have been briefed during buddy checks
3) Lack of skills - The non OOA diver should always know where the octo is and how it should be deployed both on their kit and their buddies. The non OOA diver should be able to put their hand on that reg and deploy it even with poor/zero vis and this skill should be practised. I wonder how many people actually practise the lost reg/deployment of octo drills that they were taught in OW training.

The only absolute emergency in diving is being OOA therefore OOA procedures SHOULD be burned in to muscle memory and practised on a regular basis. It should be a reflex action to reach for and deploy your back up reg with no fumbling or thought.

This is a great post. The only thing I would add/change is that both the divers in a buddy team should know where each others octo is located so it can be retrieved and deployed by either diver in case of emergency.

Some agencies do not teach that the non-OOA diver deploys their octo....they teach the OOA diver to take the air source and if the non-OOA diver is aware of what is going on they teach for them to "present" their body to facilitate the OOA diver taking the octo. Hence another reason why pre-dive briefs/discussions are important...

....a couple of seasons ago I was acting as a safety diver for a friend who is a BSAC instructor. I was primarily underwater with him and his class for him in case he had any problems so that he did not have to rely on the actions/reactions of his students. They were practicing OOA scenarios and he asked me through signaling to do this exercise with one of his students. I was the OOA diver in the exercise. I signaled OOA and removed my 2nd stage as I expected the person to hand me their octo similar to how it is taught by other organizations. The person splayed out all starfish like and I had no idea what they were doing but while this was going on I was slowly blowing bubbles and running out of air. Once I realized they were not going to move towards me and give me the octo I swam towards them and grabbed it. It was at that moment I realized how important it is to discuss OOA procedures during my pre-dive briefs before every dive as I cannot be sure of how others were trained but I can insist on agreement to how we will handle certain things underwater. Had that been a real OOA situation things could have been hairy.

-Z