I'm not a teacher... what to do ?

[tomboyy]

Hey Tom:

I read your posts and all the replies. Your information is good, and everyone's response has hit on everything needed to achieve good bouyancy control. He should be properly weighted in the pool, then put in a decent Quarry. I see in your bio that you have been to Dutch Springs. Is that in Bethlehem PA? I was there all day, and took five newly certified guys to the Cessna plane in 30 feet of water. As I expected, it was hectic, since they were new. So my one point is that typically all new people have little on no idea of neutral bouyancy, and how to acheive it. It's a learned skill. Enough said. We're all on the same page. Let's talk about something different about your bud.

Is he SCUBA Diving for the love of the sport (like all of us)?no Or is he just doing it for you?yes You guys are best friends, that cool. Is he slow to gear up?yes Is he overly nervous?yes You are obviously the crutch for his mindset that he doesn't need to learn all the basic skills.yes As he gets more training, he will get better (I hope). But you sound really stressed over this situation (which is clearly understandable). It's taking away from a sport that I can see you really enjoy. It's not your job to be a constant Rescue Diver for your friend. Somebody is going to get hurt.

Training.........sure. I'm always learning new things, and my first OW cert was in Dutch Springs in 1985. Get a good instructor and get some relaxed, FUN training for him. Let the instructor hone his skills, and maybe you can follow along after a while diving back up, to see his progression. But he needs to know you're not there to help him, just watch him. Let the instructor earn his money. IF HE wants to dive, he pays. Sounds like you supplied him with enough gear and moral support.thats the truth

Inbetween these sessions, you guys should go have a beer ot two. Ask him for a straight answer. What does he expect from diving? Is it all about you? Or is it about you had him having a great time and sharing the best sport in the word. If you're in SC, Dutch is way too far. Find a good clear spot like Dutch. But a pool alone isn't deep enough. You need open water, with a little depth, but I wouldn't suggest the ocean yet. Somewhere with no currents, waves, salt water, etc.

I hope this helps. It could be a mind thing instead of just a training thing. Good luck.

you touched on some good things here.... I think he may be doing this cause of me and maybe he can tell others yea I'm a diver... we all have egos

Think I'm leaning on more training with someone else.. that way maybe he will start takeing control over his issues instead of me doing it for him ,literally I was dumping his air on ascent and holding his elbow.

I don't know if he'll ever love it like me... I was hooked first OW dive.

 

[diver 85]

send him back to his instructor.......

 

[D_B]

send him back to his instructor.......

no .. you can see that he did not "click" with that instructor (giving instructor benefit of doubt) ... I think sending him back to the same one would be unproductive, or, at the very least, less productive than trying someone else whose teaching methods might better fit him

 

[Dr Neil]

1. What kind of physical condition is he in?
2. Get him properly weighted. The following formula will put the needed eight in the ball park:
Body weight X .05
4lbs. for an AL 80 tank
1 lb. of weight for every mm of thermal protection
3. Put him in a swimming pool and practice neutral buoyancy. There are a number of drills that will not only help buoyancy but breathing as well. Start with something as simple as fin pivots.
4. Smack his hand every time he tries to add air to his BC.
5. Practice makes perfect. Keep doing shallow dives with him.

 

[rollerboi]

4. Smack his hand every time he tries to add air to his BC.

:lol this one's my favorite. too bad rolled up newspapers tend to disintegrate underwater!

 

[fnfalman]

Some people needs more time to get adjusted to SCUBA diving.\

Have the guy do a one-on-one training with a good local instructor/divemaster/highly experienced diver.

 

[fjpatrum]

1. What kind of physical condition is he in?
2. Get him properly weighted. The following formula will put the needed eight in the ball park:
Body weight X .05
4lbs. for an AL 80 tank
1 lb. of weight for every mm of thermal protection
3. Put him in a swimming pool and practice neutral buoyancy. There are a number of drills that will not only help buoyancy but breathing as well. Start with something as simple as fin pivots.
4. Smack his hand every time he tries to add air to his BC.
5. Practice makes perfect. Keep doing shallow dives with him.

Just out of curiosity, where does that formula come from- it's very interesting. I'm assuming the calculation would be better for salt water than fresh water (where I did my OW dives) but it would have had me over-weighted by at least 10 pounds on my OW dives. I would have had 13 pounds just for my neoprene (2 piece suit with a hooded vest under plus gloves and booties.) I ended up wearing 16 and I still think I was slightly over-weighted.

 

[TSandM]

I feel for you! I remember spending 45 minutes in the water with a new diver once, trying to get him neutral for even one moment, and eventually just surfacing and telling him he needed to go get some more instruction, because I had just run out of ideas on how to help him.

It really sounds to me as though your friend got a pretty poor course. I wore the dunce cap through my entire OW class, and I wasn't as bad as you are describing -- but I DID dive negative and crawl my way upslope on many of my earliest dives, just to avoid corking. (It's not the worst strategy -- uncontrolled ascents are much more dangerous!)

If I were presented with the person described, I'd go back to the pool. We'd work on neutral buoyancy and some breath control there, until the student could at least swim around in midwater, if not hover. Then we'd begin the first OW dive with a proper weight check, so he'd be close to correct and just a little bit heavy. I think most people can learn this, if it's deconstructed and taught patiently. But I know from personal experience that the more serious failures you have, the less confidence you have and the more anxiety and poor breathing will get in the way of good buoyancy control.

See if you can hook your friend up with a good, patient instructor or DM and preferably one with a little advanced training (eg. cave ) that focuses on buoyancy and trim.

 

[on_two_wheels]

I believe this is for the suit....not for gloves, boots, hood or vest. Not positive but 10 lbs just for a suit/vest is excessive.

Just out of curiosity, where does that formula come from- it's very interesting. I'm assuming the calculation would be better for salt water than fresh water (where I did my OW dives) but it would have had me over-weighted by at least 10 pounds on my OW dives. I would have had 13 pounds just for my neoprene (2 piece suit with a hooded vest under plus gloves and booties.) I ended up wearing 16 and I still think I was slightly over-weighted.

 

[tomboyy]

Talked with my friend this evening. He brought up the subject and tried saying his new reg didn't breath right. He started comparing his rental regs with his new (used but nice) and said his old ( rental ) felt like it was forcing air into his lungs whereas this one wasn't. He then started on how the new regs were blowing air into his ears and messing him up. he then skiped to how and old motorcycle accident messed his neck u and on and on it went.

So... I told him that he need more training and suggested a person who had done part of my training and who I thought was spot on. then he starts with why can't i do it and I had to tell him he was pushing me to my limits and I thought he'd be better with someone else. he went on and on about all the things that might be causing him trouble ,except the fact that he might need more training.

End of conversation :

Me: so call "insert name" and set something up

Him: aww I ain't got time for that right now blah ba blah

At this point I don't know if he'll ever go diving again