I'm not a teacher... what to do ?

[NC Wreck Diver]

Hey Tom:

I read your posts and all the replies. Your information is good, and everyone's response has hit on everything needed to achieve good bouyancy control. He should be properly weighted in the pool, then put in a decent Quarry. I see in your bio that you have been to Dutch Springs. Is that in Bethlehem PA? I was there all day, and took five newly certified guys to the Cessna plane in 30 feet of water. As I expected, it was hectic, since they were new. So my one point is that typically all new people have little on no idea of neutral bouyancy, and how to acheive it. It's a learned skill. Enough said. We're all on the same page. Let's talk about something different about your bud.

Is he SCUBA Diving for the love of the sport (like all of us)? Or is he just doing it for you? You guys are best friends, that cool. Is he slow to gear up? Is he overly nervous? You are obviously the crutch for his mindset that he doesn't need to learn all the basic skills. As he gets more training, he will get better (I hope). But you sound really stressed over this situation (which is clearly understandable). It's taking away from a sport that I can see you really enjoy. It's not your job to be a constant Rescue Diver for your friend. Somebody is going to get hurt.

Training.........sure. I'm always learning new things, and my first OW cert was in Dutch Springs in 1985. Get a good instructor and get some relaxed, FUN training for him. Let the instructor hone his skills, and maybe you can follow along after a while diving back up, to see his progression. But he needs to know you're not there to help him, just watch him. Let the instructor earn his money. IF HE wants to dive, he pays. Sounds like you supplied him with enough gear and moral support.

Inbetween these sessions, you guys should go have a beer ot two. Ask him for a straight answer. What does he expect from diving? Is it all about you? Or is it about you had him having a great time and sharing the best sport in the word. If you're in SC, Dutch is way too far. Find a good clear spot like Dutch. But a pool alone isn't deep enough. You need open water, with a little depth, but I wouldn't suggest the ocean yet. Somewhere with no currents, waves, salt water, etc.

I hope this helps. It could be a mind thing instead of just a training thing. Good luck.

 

[KozMcCharlie]

Hey NC Wreck... I might have seen you at the cessna today as it was the 3rd dive in my story below...

The overweighted part should not be overlooked. I just did a couple dives today after certifying last week and found that I had far better buoyancy control the second and third dives. I just figured that when the instructor did a weight check last week that she knew exactly what she was doing. Since I was able to get down fairly easily I noted the amount of weight in my log (33Lbs) and put it on this week. After the first dive, my insta-buddy asked if I knew that I looked like a yo yo at the bottom and I knew I was doing it... He had me pull 9lbs and when we went back out I was able to get down and keep myself in a great position. I had just assumed that I wasn't very good with my buoyancy control and was trying very hard to work at it... I don't think that they spend nearly enough time on this topic in the training. It really needs one full pool session to really get the idea across.

The other part... the dizziness... could be due to that yo yo thing. If he's anything like me, just those quick up and down adjustments will make your head spin a bit. I was able to get it controlled by holding onto a rock and taking big breaths.

 

[NC Wreck Diver]

Hey Koz:

Yeah it was me with the five guys today at the Cessnea. They were either glued to the wing or bouncing around the bottom. I had the white 85 steel doubles and the 30 cu.ft. sling pony. These guys did OK for their 5th dive. I did show them how to safety hang at fifteen feet for three minutes on the bouy line at the end of the dive.

33 Pounds?? Aren't you guys in 5MM wet suits? I wear 20 pounds in a drysuit with ankle weights,
You may want to cut that back more and more as time goes on.

Let's get to Tom's delimena...........I think his buddy is dizzy from the yo-yo effect of CO2. Tom is breathing the same air with no ill effect. My guess is that he needs practice, and some talking to also. It's just a guess IMHO. Good luck Tom............your buddy will get there.

Keep cutting that weight off Koz. You will control your bouyancy with practice. I dive with no weight with the steel 85's and 3 pounds with my 80 AL doubles and my 63 doubles. That's in a 4/3wet suit with a chicken vest hood.

 

[ClarkKent]

Some great suggestions above...

My 2 cents .....

1. Check his breathing rate and depth. (As noted above is he fully exhaling?). Being dizzy could be a result of hyperventilation thus adding to his lack of bouyancy control. Take him to a pool and have him do this simple drill:

Bouble bobs (used to teach kids to be more comfortable underwater) Holding on to the edge of the pool have him go under water and exhale continuously and completely, then come up for a breath and immediately go back down. Rinse an repeat. Get him to do this until he is comfortable and at a rate that does NOT make him dizzy.

2. Re check his weighting
3. AOW Peak Buoyancy

 

[vladimir]

Another possibility for the source of the dizziness is unequal clearing of the ears, complicated or caused by rapid changes in depth.

 

[FrogManMike]

33 LB:shocked2: I am a lard ass and don't use that much.

 

[bracko]

my buddy (we're both very new divers, 20(her) & 40 (me) dives) has had the same issue.

the last dives we did she was getting better, but it just takes time. she's not a mechanically minded person and while a very intelligent person, just doesn't have the instinct.

she actually got scared of putting air in her BC as well, as a result ended up swimming at 45 degrees and using significantly more air then me [50+ bar more]... but lately she's been doing better, i think now will be the time to take her to a shallow dive site and do some of the stuff we covered in AOW peak dives

one thing which did help was to try and get her to orally inflate instead of using the LP hose. I don't really know if this is or isn't a good practice (i started doing it by watching other very experienced divers doing it) and found i had far greater control when doing it.

the difference being that i enjoy teaching and i am intending to become an instructor

 

[FrogManMike]

one thing which did help was to try and get her to orally inflate instead of using the LP hose. I don't really know if this is or isn't a good practice (i started doing it by watching other very experienced divers doing it) and found i had far greater control when doing it.

you have far more control orally inflating than you do using the LP valve because using the LP inflator during a dive usually puts too much air in the bladder causing you to loose all control of your buoyancy then you have to fiddle with the dump valve then you are going back and forth and so on...
IMO the only time the LP valve should be used is when you are at surface and want complete positive buoyancy so you don't have to tread water to stay afloat.

JM.02

 

[DCBC]

I can't beleive he got his card ( actually I can ) I just wish they cared about the type of divers they turn out. What should I do here ? tell him he needs to go back and get more training, which I'm not sure he would or keep babying him on easy sloped shore dives? Is it normal for people to be like this at 7 dives ?

I hear of problems like this more and more and can't help but think it's reflective of the training provided. To answer your question, no this is not reflective of a diver with this experience, at least not one of my students. I obviously can't speak for all training programs because this is obviously a problem with some courses.

I don't believe that the root of the problem is equipment based, rather a short coming in your friends training. I would suggest that he takes remedial training from a different instructor. There are many certified divers that do so, as some wish to brush-up on unused skills over the years. Good luck.

Wayne

 

[fjpatrum]

I'd suggest having him dive with someone else as his buddy. Organize a group and have him buddy up with someone else. If you're that close as friends then he's trusting you to take care of him. If it's someone he doesn't know as well, he'll be more likely to instinctively take on more responsibility for himself because he won't know if he can trust the other diver the way he can trust you.

It will be good for both of you.

I don't have enough experience to suggest anything else, but what others have said makes a lot of sense to me.