I'm not a teacher... what to do ?

[tomboyy]

I'll try to be short here. My best friend of 30 years finally decided to take up diving. I did all i could to help him including paying for part of his course and giving him a bunch of extra stuff I had. He finished his course and I took him out on 3 dives so far but he doesn't seem to be getting it ! He can't seem to get neutrally bouyant even after I spent 45 mins trying to help him and show him. he's made 3 unplanned ascents in 2 of 3 dives, 1 being at 40 foot and the other 2 we were at 20-25 feet.

on the way home yesterday he says " I'm just not gonna add any air to my BCD that way I won't shoot to the surface" I'm looking at him and shaking my head saying thats not how things work. I spent all that time yesterday trying to help and today he's dragging the bottom the whole dive . I took him to 60 feet today to a boat that I'd taken him to on his first post cert. dive. I gave him a slate and he keeps signaling he's ok but writes in the slate that he dizzy and wants me to stay close, I wrote back dives over and had to practically hold his hand to get him back on shore.

I'm at my wits end here..... I'm not a teacher, I don't have the patience. I'm explaining and showing him what to do and he doesn't seem to be getting it and mean while I'm getting stressed out and using more of my rescue skills than I ever wanted. I think he thinks I'm gonna save him every dive and hold his hand.

I can't beleive he got his card ( actually I can ) I just wish they cared about the type of divers they turn out. What should I do here ? tell him he needs to go back and get more training, which I'm not sure he would or keep babying him on easy sloped shore dives? Is it normal for people to be like this at 7 dives ?

 

[on_two_wheels]

Wow....2 out of 3 is a lot at the point you were. Some people new to diving (myself incl) don't realize how large an effect just a small puff of air can be, especially at 40 ft. I think if I were in your shoes, first thing I'd do is intentionally bring a tank down to 500 psi and have him do a supervised weight check. Perhaps he doesn't have as much as he should. Then I'd go back to the pool. Properly weighted and with a completely empty BCD, go to the very bottom and lay on his stomach. Have him inhale as deep as he can and then let out slowly. This will show him that just his lungs can raise him up. Then back on the bottom, have him add little puffs of air to see the effect. Lastly, I'd have him add a larger puff, then dump it quickly as he ascends. I'd repeat that one until muscle memory is established.

Like you, I'm no instructor. However, if after those steps he can't at least stop the unwanted ascents, perhaps paying for a one-on-one session or two with an instructor is in order.

As for being dizzy, I occasionally get light headed at 50-70 feet. It just reminds me to breathe deeper and exhale longer to expel CO2 from my lungs. Remind him to do the same.

 

[D_B]

nope, It's not normal

short of having him get more training (from a different instructor as he didn't seem to connect with the one he had (benefit of doubt)) have you done a post dive weight check ?
I was surprised at how during one dive I thought my buoyancy skills were shot, buoyancy was all "touchy" ... great to see that I had 2 extra lbs in my weight pocket , and surprised at how readily I could tell the difference

and air .. adding it to your BC only requires the smallest puffs, sometimes waiting to see if just making a big inhale can effect the change in trajectory you need

 

[BabyDuck]

any chance of getting him to get some non-class instructor time? more of a 'paid mentor' kinda thing, either with a little cash or a couple of six-packs, but not the whole class over.

 

[vjanelle]

He's dizzy, while diving? Ascent problems? Is he completely exhaling?

 

[FrogManMike]

I wouldnt dive with him no matter how good of a friend he is and I would tell him why... simply put he is a danger not only to himself but his buddy as well.
yes he def needs a lot more training and NOT by the same instructor who certified him.

he needs to be trained bouyancy control without a BC first then trained with it.
he also needs to be taught good planning habbits and stick to it.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

He may in fact be overweighted to begin with. I see a number of uncontrolled ascents with students of instructors who plant em on the bottom with too much weight. If he is overweighted the amount of air needed to get neutral is increased. If the diver fails to dump quick enough it could expand so rapidly that the ascent gets out of control before one knows it and they take off like a missile. Weight checks are not a pain in the butt. They are absolutely critical. We do them EVERY pool session at the beginning and at the end on the last 3 sessions. First thing done in OW is a weight check with just MSF and exposure suit. I want the diver to just begin to sink when they exhale from the snorkel. Then we do the snorkel and skin dives. Following that comes another check on scuba before the first dive.

 

[FrogManMike]

Jim is absolutely right! Learning proper Buoancy control is IMO one of the most crucial things you will ever learn to do as a diver.

from reading lots of other posts here at SB it seems to me that is where most instructors fail the student in their diving education experience.
that is one of the reasons why i strongly advocate teaching the student buoyancy control without a BC before they ever strap on a BC.
also from reading many of the other threads it also is beginning to look like to me that these instructors are inadvertently brainwashing their student to look at their "Buoyancy Compensator" as a life saving device other than its originally intended use.

 

[tomboyy]

As for being dizzy, I occasionally get light headed at 50-70 feet. It just reminds me to breathe deeper and exhale longer to expel CO2 from my lungs. Remind him to do the same.

I thought the same thing and went over this with hime yesterday on the way home

nope, It's not normal

short of having him get more training (from a different instructor as he didn't seem to connect with the one he had (benefit of doubt)) have you done a post dive weight check ?

No I haven't and I think that'll help and I'll do it

any chance of getting him to get some non-class instructor time? more of a 'paid mentor' kinda thing, either with a little cash or a couple of six-packs, but not the whole class over.

This maybe the option I'm left with.. I don't want to get him fusterated to the point where he just quits. He thinks I'm a "scuba pro" and expects me to fix him, but like I said I'm NOT a instructor or even teacher material... no patience

He's dizzy, while diving? Ascent problems? Is he completely exhaling?

I went over this with him ... the whole Co2 thing about inhaling and exhaleing completely and even trying to time it ( inhaling 5 sec. and exhaling 5 sec.

I wouldnt dive with him no matter how good of a friend he is and I would tell him why..

He's my best friend dude... I couldn't leave him hanging. If I have to have fifty 20 foot sessions with him or buy him training I'll do it. I guess part of my question was maybe is it possible that someones just not cut out to dive ? I mean .. my wifes couldn't do it .. she'd freak out and killl herself . He's not like that ... he just doesn't seem to be "getting" it

He may in fact be overweighted to begin with. I see a number of uncontrolled ascents with students of instructors who plant em on the bottom with too much weight. If he is overweighted the amount of air needed to get neutral is increased. If the diver fails to dump quick enough it could expand so rapidly that the ascent gets out of control before one knows it and they take off like a missile. Weight checks are not a pain in the butt. They are absolutely critical. We do them EVERY pool session at the beginning and at the end on the last 3 sessions. First thing done in OW is a weight check with just MSF and exposure suit. I want the diver to just begin to sink when they exhale from the snorkel. Then we do the snorkel and skin dives. Following that comes another check on scuba before the first dive.

He is wearing alot of weight... maybe that could be part of it... thanks Jim

Any other suggestions are appreciated..

 

[FrogManMike]

He's my best friend dude... I couldn't leave him hanging. If I have to have fifty 20 foot sessions with him or buy him training I'll do it. I guess part of my question was maybe is it possible that someones just not cut out to dive ? I mean .. my wifes couldn't do it .. she'd freak out and killl herself . He's not like that ... he just doesn't seem to be "getting" it


my best friend almost drowned me diving I was telling you this due to my experience
If you want to continue to dive with him I would strongly suggest you get in some pool time with him and show him the proper way to dive until he does get it.

and you are right, some people have no business strapping on SCUBA gear.
however if your friend likes to dive he most definitely needs to learn and practice safe diving procedures.