I'm not a teacher... what to do ?

[bracko]

is it really that hard to just do a few more boring dives while he gets his confidence up?

ringing him and basically telling him you don't want to dive with him any more is a pretty big kick in the nuts.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Just out of curiosity, where does that formula come from- it's very interesting. I'm assuming the calculation would be better for salt water than fresh water (where I did my OW dives) but it would have had me over-weighted by at least 10 pounds on my OW dives. I would have had 13 pounds just for my neoprene (2 piece suit with a hooded vest under plus gloves and booties.) I ended up wearing 16 and I still think I was slightly over-weighted.

Oops, it didn't copy the formula.

I was curious too so I added it up and I actually dive with about one pound more than what the formula came to. I only counted 7mm once even though I wear a 1/4" farmer john. Pretty darned close. That's for salt water. The funny part is that I think I'm weighted about one pound too heavy.

 

[FrogManMike]

The following formula will put the needed weight in the ball park:
Body weight X .05
4lbs. for an AL 80 tank
1 lb. of weight for every mm of thermal protection

I calculated the formula to compare it with the weight i use
That formula is dead nuts on the amount of weight i use diving in salt water.

 

[on_two_wheels]

Talked with my friend this evening. He brought up the subject and tried saying his new reg didn't breath right. He started comparing his rental regs with his new (used but nice) and said his old ( rental ) felt like it was forcing air into his lungs whereas this one wasn't. He then started on how the new regs were blowing air into his ears and messing him up. he then skiped to how and old motorcycle accident messed his neck u and on and on it went.

So... I told him that he need more training and suggested a person who had done part of my training and who I thought was spot on. then he starts with why can't i do it and I had to tell him he was pushing me to my limits and I thought he'd be better with someone else. he went on and on about all the things that might be causing him trouble ,except the fact that he might need more training.

End of conversation :

Me: so call "insert name" and set something up

Him: aww I ain't got time for that right now blah ba blah

At this point I don't know if he'll ever go diving again

He doesn't have time to improve his own safety and your's? That snippet of the conversation should be enough to convince you to NOT dive with him any further unless he not only gets additional training, but adopts a new attitude toward diving in general. Sorry to hear it went that way but at least you can be comfortable knowing you made a good, informed decision to not dive (if you so choose).

 

[weitodive]

Have you been with him on all of his dives? I have found that many people do it for reasons other than their enjoyment. Other people have already said this. Tell him that if he wants to dive, he should do a couple of dives without you there and preferably with an instructor or dm. Make sure you know the dm or instructor and let them know of this ahead of time. Hell, it doesn't even need to be a dm or instructor, just someone that you trust with your own life. I can tell you that I wasn't the most "Fluid" person when I first started but I do remember that I did finally get it. It took me about 10 dives. I never corked, i never tried to drown anyone but sometimes it's just harder. You might have him try to just work on breathing control. Tell him to breathe in for 2-3 seconds and blow out for 4-5 (just to make sure all the air out). Do this outside of water. As others have said, take him into a pool and have him try playing with fin pivots. Also, I've had plenty of people use the "there's something wrong with my gear." You will almost never be able to convince them that there isn't anything wrong. Just go with it and maybe trade him. Let him use your reg so he can't use that excuse. Maybe suggest that he buy a set of gear (even used). Rental gear is almost never the same and it almost always reacts differently every dive. Also having his own gear, he can't use the "there's something wrong with my gear" as easily. Most issues I have seen is with nervousness and fear. As others have said too, if he's not willing to spend the time to be a better diver, maybe you guys should find a different hobby that you can do together.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Some people just should not dive. It would be nice if they would see it before we do or before they get hurt.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I think you got your answer in your most recent conversation. I'm sorry that your friend is throwing away the gift you gave him (wish somebody had paid for MY training!) but obviously, diving is not high on his list of priorities, and he is only interested in learning if it is free.

You went well beyond what you had to do.

I hope you find a much better buddy to dive with.

 

[Dr Neil]

Just out of curiosity, where does that formula come from- it's very interesting. I'm assuming the calculation would be better for salt water than fresh water (where I did my OW dives) but it would have had me over-weighted by at least 10 pounds on my OW dives. I would have had 13 pounds just for my neoprene (2 piece suit with a hooded vest under plus gloves and booties.) I ended up wearing 16 and I still think I was slightly over-weighted.

I got this formula for weighting from my open water instructor many years ago.
A couple of caveats:
The thermal calculation is a pound for every millimeter generally worn on the torso;
For fresh water use .04 in place of .05.

Again this formula puts one in the ballpark for proper weighting. But it's a starting point. Obviously experience, add-on gear, conditions, body composition, etc all play a part in proper weighting. I use this with students primarily to show them a target weight.

 

[tomboyy]

Sooo... last snipet.... really disgusted at this point. I called the LDS Tell him about my friend and he says "he needs to sign up for our AOW class" I said Not only is he's NOT qualified for AOW he's not even OW and should have never been turned loose from class.

Then I get the how I don't understand, things aren't like they we're way back when, and how much it would cost to train people like that... that being OW certified !!

UUggg.... hell that was only the 1st. of 2 other wrongs this stop in .. just venting on the last sentence.. thanks for reading

 

[D_B]

THEY ... clearly do not understand (the LDS)
.... maybe you should show them this post (from another thread)

It is interesting. I've taught a lot of students. I've certified fewer than I taught. Not all of my students got certified, not all of them completed their classes. It isn't because they were f"n idiots, it's because I am. Sometimes I just can't get through to a student. I don't see that as a failure on their part, but as a failure on mine. Yes, I refund a student when I fail to teach them. Yes, I'll give them the whole year to get the class done. Yes, I'll hand the student off to another instructor to finish them, and try to learn from the process. Try to learn how to teach the skill I failed to teach. Why would I do this? Because if someone wants to learn to dive, I want them to have the best instruction possible. After all, diving is a dangerous sport, and new divers need to be prepared to face that danger. For any instructor to want something less than that for their student does a dis-service to the student, as well as a dis-service to the scuba industry as a whole. I really don't want to see Hotpuppy (or any other diver) on the Spree until he has shown MASTERY of the skills for the card he is presenting me. Anything less shows a lack of respect for those of us who try to make better divers.

While I like this post in particular, there are others that have posted here that train divers with the same care and thoroughness

I do believe that I was lucky in that the instructor I've had feels similarly to Wookie