I'm done with teaching. It's time.

[diver_pirate]

Jim Speaks truth. One of my concerns with the liability insurance is if you are with a shop you are grouped to a certain insurance package (the group). If you are an independant your group might be PADI or DAN or other agency. Should anyone in your group have an incident and found responsible and liable for say $10 million or a billion and they only have $1 million the rest of the group becomes liable for the balance. Depending on group size your exposure might be less. Its as if we are self insuring. One screwball instructor could cripple you financially forever. The shop hires you as an independent contractor and limits their liability. I love diving, refuse to do classes at max student ratios and teach for fun and enjoymetn of sharing a skill and experience and not for profit to cover expenses. I have to have another day job to be able to teach.
__DP

 

[TMHeimer]

Jim Speaks truth. One of my concerns with the liability insurance is if you are with a shop you are grouped to a certain insurance package (the group). If you are an independant your group might be PADI or DAN or other agency. Should anyone in your group have an incident and found responsible and liable for say $10 million or a billion and they only have $1 million the rest of the group becomes liable for the balance. Depending on group size your exposure might be less. Its as if we are self insuring. One screwball instructor could cripple you financially forever. The shop hires you as an independent contractor and limits their liability. I love diving, refuse to do classes at max student ratios and teach for fun and enjoymetn of sharing a skill and experience and not for profit to cover expenses. I have to have another day job to be able to teach.
__DP

Good points that I never thought of as a DM. I just took out the required insurance through PADI.
When you say you need your day job so you are able to teach does that mean you make no profit teaching Scuba after paying for your insurance?

 

[Pressurehead]

Yesterday I conducted my last pool dive as an active instructor.

Enjoy your retirement from active instructor, more power to you for knowing "it's Time".

 

[ThatDogDontHunt]

Jim Speaks truth. One of my concerns with the liability insurance is if you are with a shop you are grouped to a certain insurance package (the group). If you are an independant your group might be PADI or DAN or other agency. Should anyone in your group have an incident and found responsible and liable for say $10 million or a billion and they only have $1 million the rest of the group becomes liable for the balance. Depending on group size your exposure might be less. Its as if we are self insuring. One screwball instructor could cripple you financially forever. The shop hires you as an independent contractor and limits their liability. I love diving, refuse to do classes at max student ratios and teach for fun and enjoymetn of sharing a skill and experience and not for profit to cover expenses. I have to have another day job to be able to teach.
__DP

That is not how liability insurance works. A policyholders does not assume any risk from other policyholders. The risk is a one way transfer. Note that a small insurance company can pass on a portion of it's risk to a big "re-insurer". The worst case for a policyholder would be that the insurer goes bankrupt and you are left without coverage.

"Risk transfer is a risk management and control strategy that involves the contractual shifting of a pure risk from one party to another. One example is the purchase of an insurance policy, by which a specified risk of loss is passed from the policyholder to the insurer."

 

[NothingClever]

I’m struggling to understand why this thread is in “Introduction & Greets”.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I’m struggling to understand why this thread is in “Introduction & Greets”.

The mods moved it because I have a lot of people who follow me and they wanted them to see it.

 

[Roger Hobden]

The mods moved it because I have a lot of people who follow me and they wanted them to see it.

+1

 

[diver_pirate]

Good points that I never thought of as a DM. I just took out the required insurance through PADI.
When you say you need your day job so you are able to teach does that mean you make no profit teaching Scuba after paying for your insurance?

I have taught for over 18 years and teach in the mid-atlantic area which is very seasonal. For me I try to make at least $10 an hour after expenses as a part timer. I love diving and I am able to keep my gear current with key-man rates and do trips to travel destinations world wide at budget rates for being the dive leader. Its hard to put a value on that. I have a family of 4 to support and need additional income. IMO, Unless you are in the keys, south Florida, Texas coast or west coast you are likely going to need additional income or inherit it. If you join a big shop you will need experience and ability to teach specialties to improve your income. There is a saying that if you want to make a million in dive ops, start with three million. Dont mean to be a buzz kill just reality. There are about 2000 working hours a year. You need to make $17.50 each hour to make $35k before taxes, insurance, car, rent..... Is that enough to live on? You need to work in a shop or multiple shops or crew on boats when ever you are not diving. Teach for enjoyment, experience and the love of diving. There are some risks both financial and hyperbaric but its worth it.

 

[Superlyte27]

Jim Speaks truth. One of my concerns with the liability insurance is if you are with a shop you are grouped to a certain insurance package (the group). If you are an independant your group might be PADI or DAN or other agency. Should anyone in your group have an incident and found responsible and liable for say $10 million or a billion and they only have $1 million the rest of the group becomes liable for the balance. Depending on group size your exposure might be less. Its as if we are self insuring. One screwball instructor could cripple you financially forever. The shop hires you as an independent contractor and limits their liability. I love diving, refuse to do classes at max student ratios and teach for fun and enjoymetn of sharing a skill and experience and not for profit to cover expenses. I have to have another day job to be able to teach.
__DP

That’s not the way it works.

 

[NothingClever]

The mods moved it because I have a lot of people who follow me and they wanted them to see it.

I’d really like the RSTC to see it as an important barometer reading of the industry. When a seasoned professional instructor at the very point of achieving influential reach instead calls it quits because of the deterioration of the industry’s instructional culture, that should be a warning flag. It makes wonder how much each certifying agency balances between new instructor recruitment and veteran instructor retention. Maybe wondering is unnecessary. In defense of some certifying agencies, my sense is Paul Toomer has thought about retention and I'm confident Jarrod Jablonski has spent time on the topic.

I have yet to see any evidence of an ISO audit conducted by an independent non-industry related or government auditor.

It's really discouraging to hear the steady drip that the RSTC and WRSTC have no teeth. Short of some legal action against individual certifying agencies (probably way out-of-kilter in cost effectiveness), the only recourse in the US I can think of would be through facilitating the filing of individual complaints with the US Better Business Bureau. Obviously this would only cover US experiences. It would be a somewhat diffuse and piece-mealed process requiring a persistent stare at the problems by an organization resourced to pay attention while perhaps only yielding modest impacts on a certifying agency's culture.

Flagging for @Darcy Kieran cognizance and comment.