I'm a newbie: What do I need in a BP/W?

[OceansideOcean]

Hi all,

First of all, this is a long post - I apologize.

After reading for months, I've decided I'd like to try a BP/W. However, there are a million questions. I've searched most of them here, but there's a million answers in a million places. So let's start some controversy here. Here's the situation:

I got OW certified in April. So far, I've done 7 dives in a drysuit and 7 dives in tropical water on the GBR. In the drysuit, I rented a BC because I bought a ScubPro Glide Plus (vest type BC) and my DM/Trainer wants a BC with more lift for the dry suit. He says it's not an issue until the drysuit floods. The SP GP has 34 lbs. of lift. Do you agree or disagree with this?

BTW, I know I must be crazy, but I like the squeeze of the inflated vest BC - it's like being hugged. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attached to it, just after reading all the people who hate that feeling, I'd just though I'd say I actually like it.


A. I'm 5'10" and 170 lbs.

B. First and foremost, the rig needs to have enough lift for the dry suit. It's a USIA Techniflex Trilam. Water temps in SoCal are between 55-60 degrees F.

I've been using a steel 100 tank so far. I'll probably use this most/all of the time in cold water - it's what my favorite boat has. I also have 3mm gloves and 5mm boots and I'm going to get an Otter Bay 6.5mm drysuit hood. With this setup, I used 26 lbs. and it seemed OK, but I'm still figuring things out.

C. I travel half the time. I'm going to Belize in a month. I found out we'll be getting aluminum 80's. I just bought a 3mm Henderson Gold Core jumpsuit, and I guarantee you I'll wear this no matter how warm the water. I also have 3mm gloves and 5mm boots and hood which I will wear with the wetsuit all the time.

D. I will never be a tech diver. I'm recreational only. I'll never dive 2 tanks. Trust me. I'm 50 years old and my first love is motorcycles. Before I invest more time/money into diving, I'd buy another bike (that would be the third) and put more miles on it.

E. My DM/Trainer also insists on TWO tank bands.

F. I'll dive at night (I've got a 8 C-Cell HID so I won't get a canister) and won't go past 100'. I'll soon get a nitrox (EAN) card.


Here's what I need to know:

1. Should I get a steel plate or aluminum plate to start or will I need one for cold and one for warm water?

2. How about a Dive Rite Transpac with no plate? Will that baby work for me?

3. What size wing? I'm thinking 40lbs. but you guys know a lot more than me.

4. Should I get weight on the STA/bands? I know why I should, so you don't need to explain. But I need to know for what combo of cold/warm water - steel/aluminum plate?

4. I have an Atomic SS1 Titanium safe second on my BC and I'd like to use it on the BP/W. It's easy to move but can I put it on a wing?


Lastly, what system do you guys like the best? I'm considering:

1. The Halcyon Eclipse.

2. The DeepSeaSupply system. This seems to get the most kudo's from the people who own them. Am I right?

3. The Dive Rite system. It seems the most affordable. Am I right?

I live equidistant (and close) to a Dive Rite, DSS and Halcyon dealer - I'm in L.A.

If you'd like to recommend a specific setup, please do so. That would help a lot. I tend to analyze the recommendations because it gives me a lot of insight.

What else do I need to consider? What else do you need to know?

Thanks in advance.

mike

 

[fnfalman]

Dive Rite Transpac gives you the advantage of a BPW's performance yet the comfort of the BC due to the soft backplate (at least for single-tank diving). I'm sure that a gentleman of your age (I'm a few years behind you) would appreciate the comfort of the padded harness.

However, since that you're also diving in warm water using aluminum 80, a rig with SS plate would probably better serve for both cold and warm water. In cold water, that's extra weight spreaded across your torso so that you would be able to trim out easier and that's less weight to carry in weight pouches/weight belts. In warm water, the same heavy plate would act as weight to compensate for the aluminum 80 tank's tendency to becoming positively buoyant at the end of the dive and acts like a balloon.

Which brand to go with? I'd suggest either Dive Rite or DSS. Dive Rite never has an issue with supplying their gears to their dealers, while DSS is the same way PLUS Tobin's local.

I have the Dive Rite Transpac and Transplate.

As far as wings go, a cold water single tank diver rarely needs more than a 30-lbs of lift. I dive with a 7mm wetsuit and a heavy Faber steel 100 (or 120) and 30-lbs is plenty to lift my rig. You don't have to worry about lift yourself because your drysuit/wetsuit will be more than enough to float you. So the wing is needed to float your rig & weight belt/integrated weight pouches.

I just dived with two people this weekend at Catalina. They both wear drysuits (a Whites Fusion and a DUI something), and they both use 30-lbs Dive Rite Venture wings. Please note that Dive Rite doesn't make 30-lbs Venture wings any more, but they do make 30-lbs Travel wings.

DSS has wings that range from as low as 17-lbs to as high as you need'em.

So, decide on whether or not you'd want soft plate ala Dive Rite Transpac or you would want a hard plate. I'd recommend stainless steel plate with a padded, quick adjustable harness for convenience and comfort. So that would leave the choices of either Dive Rite Transplate harness coupled with SS plate or DSS Pro-fit harness with SS plate.

Depending on what your actual dive weight is, you may need a weight belt or if you prefer integrated weight pouches. Or maybe the heavy plate & tank are enough to sink you.

For me in my 7mm wetsuit, my extra heavy steel tank coupled with the Dive Rite SS plate and single-tank adaptor are just about perfect. I don't need any additional weight. When I use the Transpac, I have to carry 8-lbs of lead.

I just weighted my rigs and here are the dead weights:

Faber M-series 100-cf tank (full) = 50.8lbs

Dive Rite Transpac rig ready to dive with 4-lbs trim and 4-lbs weights in pockets, trauma shears, pocket knife, aluminum carabiner, Dive Rite Clipper pocket WITH Faber 100 tank = 63.4lbs.

Dive Rite SS backplate with Transplate harness & single tank adapter (STA or in Dive Rite's parlance - SMP) rig ready to dive with trauma shears, pocket knife, aluminum carabiner, Dive Rite Clipper pocket WITH Faber 100 tank = 65.0lbs

This weighting was done on a bathroom scale, so take it for what it is.

For traveling purposes, the Transpac rig may be a better choice because you can leave the weights at home. You can also unhook the trim weights and add rental trim weight to the tank straps when you get to your destination. That means 4lbs of dead weight can be shedded from the Transpac for transport purposes.

 

[StreetDoctor]

Talk to Tobin!

 

[Rainer]

Talk to Tobin!

Short but to the (right) point. Call up Tobin at DSS and he should be able to get you sorted with exactly what you need. Great guy, great products.

 

[OceansideOcean]

Dive Rite Transpac gives you the advantage of a BPW's performance yet the comfort of the BC due to the soft backplate (at least for single-tank diving). - SNIP!

This kind of advice really gets me going in the right direction.

VERY helpful.

How much lift does a trilam drysuit need if it floods? In other words, how much lift do you need for a worst case scenario in a dry suit?

I'll talk to Tobin and let you know what he says.

Am I hearing a little NOISE about Halcyon customer service?

Holy mackerel! I just looked at DSS contact info - I live less than 10 min. away!

Maybe I can go by and take Tobin to lunch - there's some great restaurants in his area.

Have you guys ever been to Ocean Adventures Dive Co. in Venice? My girlfriend lives near them...

Thanks again.

mike

 

[jlovold]

If your drysuit floods, and you are too negative for your bcd to keep you neutral, you just ditch some weights... Problem solved.

IMO, the sweet spot for single tank bcds is between 30 and 40lbs of lift. You should rarely nerd more, but could do very well with less.

As a matter of fact, the BCD only requires to compensate for the weight of your breathing gas,and the compression of neoprene. everything else is more or less superfluos

 

[halocline]

The transpac is not a backplate/wing set up, I'd eliminate that one. It's a harness system that was designed for primarily for long entries on land during shore dives. IMO, a metal plate is much better in the water, for a variety of reasons.

If you're using 26 lbs you need a steel plate for your local diving. The question for your traveling is will you need more than 8 lbs or so in a 3mil wetsuit with an AL80? I suspect the answer to that is yes, and that means a steel plate is probably a better choice for that as well.

You'll get over losing the huggy feeling, don't worry. A lot of new divers feel comfortable in a jacket BC because it's kind of like a life preserver with a tank attached. Unfortunately that's not so good for diving!

Halcyon and DSS are both top-notch products, although I personally think that the DSS single tank system is especially well designed. Just the fact that you can pull the wing right off the plate without removing the cam straps is enough to go that way. You'll really appreciate that for cleaning. Dive rite makes some decent stuff, and the new EXP wings look pretty good. You would probably want a STA with those wings (unless they've changed something) and unless you find a really good deal, I don't think it will be appreciably less than the DSS stuff. Halcyon is usually much more expensive.

Oxycheq is missing from your list. The mach v wing is pretty nice, I"d look into it. But, since you're so close to DSS, you can hardly go wrong, and Tobin will give you expert help in choosing a wing.

 

[elan]

You are stepping on a dangerous route! Just keep in mind that if you dive BP/W you are going to die ! No, no, not from a diving accident but from the shock while looking at the bank statements at the end of the month when you buy more and more things to place on your back plate It starts with doubles then stage bottles , lights etc. BP has so many free spots and every free spot tends to be occupied. I feel my days are counting as my wife's patience evaporates My buddy reports the same feeling now and he has not stepped into BP/W realm yet. Is it a necessary attribute of diving BP/W ? :depressed:

 

[ScubaSam]

I have to agree with what's been posted. Tobin from DSS is great about answering all your questions and will help you choose without pushing any unnecessary gear on you. Absolutely no sales pitch at all, and given you live so close, what are you waiting for, drive on over!

Good luck with whatever company's gear you end up with.

 

[OceansideOcean]

You are stepping on a dangerous route! Just keep in mind that if you dive BP/W you are going to die ! No, no, not from a diving accident but from the shock while looking at the bank statements at the end of the month when you buy more and more things to place on your back plate - SNIP!

YOUR KILLING ME!!!!

LUCKY for me, I'm still single How do you think I can have 2 motorcycles and an eye on a third

Thanks jlovold, mattboy and scubasam. Great advice. No one has clearly answered the lift in a flooded drysuit question before - and I looked all over this place.

I'll go talk to Tobin as soon as I get a chance. I'm getting the impression that DSS is the way to go. I really like the Halcyon Eclipse but if I get the extra weight pockets, it's going to be about $1,000 new.

mike