Question Ikelite vs. Sea & Sea strobes

[bvanant]

Strobes are forever in the sense that when you upgrade camera/housing you will still be able to use your strobes. I think for many of us who started with electrical sync and IKE strobes and have had problems either with the sync cord or with the strobe/charger we mostly have moved to optical sync. For the money of the IKE strobes there are a whole bunch of more modern designs that don't use proprietary batteries/chargers and have the same power/recycle time as the 160. One other issue is that the flash duration is longer than 1/125 seconds so if you sync faster than that you will have less light on your subject. Certainly if you choose the IKE strobes you will be able to get good photos, particularly if you add the TTL converter, but they are a very old design, proprietary batteries, proprietary charger. There are so many modern strobes at the same price that will be future proof. I had the first version of the 160 and had issues with sync cords (more than strobe issues, but we had some of them too including 2 broken toggle locks ) and charging. In any case, enjoy what you buy and dive safe.
Bill

 

[Lu Y]

Strobes are forever in the sense that when you upgrade camera/housing you will still be able to use your strobes. I think for many of us who started with electrical sync and IKE strobes and have had problems either with the sync cord or with the strobe/charger we mostly have moved to optical sync. For the money of the IKE strobes there are a whole bunch of more modern designs that don't use proprietary batteries/chargers and have the same power/recycle time as the 160. One other issue is that the flash duration is longer than 1/125 seconds so if you sync faster than that you will have less light on your subject. Certainly if you choose the IKE strobes you will be able to get good photos, particularly if you add the TTL converter, but they are a very old design, proprietary batteries, proprietary charger. There are so many modern strobes at the same price that will be future proof. I had the first version of the 160 and had issues with sync cords (more than strobe issues, but we had some of them too including 2 broken toggle locks ) and charging. In any case, enjoy what you buy and dive safe.
Bill

I'd say we shortlisted the Ike because of the housing and the sea & sea because of aggressive discount at a local retailer.
In the price bucket of the Ike we were also eyeing the Backscatter HF-1 and the Retra Maxi. Is this what you call future proof, and would that represent better buys?
Or what else would you recommend in the price range similar to the Ike?
(Note, we find the included video lights a nice convenience feature)

 

[Barmaglot]

For the requirements that you list (mostly wide-angle, manual mode, weight/size not critical), I'd look at Kraken KS160 or Supe D-Pro, with an Ikelite LED trigger. Both feature a circular bulb and similar output power to DS160, using generic battery cells instead of Ikelite's proprietary batteries, at a somewhat lower pricepoint (you're saving about $200 per strobe, although you'll have to put some of it back towards an optical trigger). A potential downside is significantly cooler color temperature - DS160 is unusually warm, which helps in bringing out the blues in water column background.

HF-1 and Retra Maxi are a bit of a step up from DS160 in terms of price, they bring a considerable amount more power, but, using a straight bulb, the beam is not as wide and even, and it's also somewhat cool. Optical trigger caveat also applies. Retra Maxi is also not shipping yet.

There is also Retra Pro Max (and upcoming Pro Max II) as well as UW-Technics Optima (also "coming soon"), but those are considerably more expensive.

 

[TostitoBandito]

Thank you all for your interesting answers. I am a bit surprised with the opinionated concern on quality Ike sometimes attracts. I wonder what is the reason behind.

To be fair, it's one person in this thread who has apparently had all the technical issues you mentioned with Ikelite. I don't share any of those, with the exception of one broken battery toggle I had after many years that you can replace for a few dollars (and you can carry spares). I don't think it's a broad perception that Ikelite is of poor quality, or if it is it's news to me. You can talk about performance or ergonomics compared to other brands/models certainly, just as in any market, but I think it's unfair to assert that they make junk or that their stuff always breaks. I think most of the responses here give a pretty fair assessment of the pros/cons when it comes to fiber optic vs sync cord, adapters, strobe features, and so forth.

 

[bvanant]

I suspect that Mr. Bandito means me although others ("On the downside, DS-160 is just a continuation of the design that was crap even 25 years ago. Proprietary and expensive battery units due to the switches in the pack, proprietary charger, lack of a built-in optical trigger, and quality issues are why you should avoid them"). I don't think that the IKE strobes are unreliable in general, or of poor quality, although I have had issues with them, albeit with first generation 160s, (also issues with earlier S&S strobes), more that they remain an old fashioned design (no direct optical triggering, proprietary and heavy batteries etc.) and moving in the future to a different housing might be more painful than using one of the more modern strobes. Certainly if IKE housings are the only ones you will use in the future, then they will be good choices since they will be plug and play. TTL with the IKE TTL adapter works quite well (at least with my Canon 5D).

Bill

 

[hilljo88]

I dive the S&S ds3s with S&S housing and my dive buddy dives the Ikes with Ike housing. Both ttl which is helpful for macro We are both happy with our choices. The plusses and minuses are well articulated above,

 

[TostitoBandito]

I don't think that the IKE strobes are unreliable in general, or of poor quality, although I have had issues with them, albeit with first generation 160s, (also issues with earlier S&S strobes), more that they remain an old fashioned design (no direct optical triggering, proprietary and heavy batteries etc.) and moving in the future to a different housing might be more painful than using one of the more modern strobes.

Bill

Yeah it's certainly valid to criticize their design aesthetic and philosophy as it might not be for everyone. Ikelite very much makes utilitarian products with an emphasis on function and reliability above most other things, especially with regard to their housings which are still roughly the same boxy design that they were 30 years ago (in many cases it's probably the same mold with different button holes drilled). The strobes have had some incremental improvements in the newer models, like recycle time and power, but as you point out the fundamental design and power system is over 20 years old. I think this is partly cause they're not a big company, they're in the US where it costs a lot to manufacture and just for labor in general, and this helps them keep prices down and be competitive in the middle segment of the housing market. It probably also takes them a long time to do R&D on new product ideas compared to other bigger companies, or companies operating in parts of the world with much cheaper labor.

But yeah, their products don't necessarily have all the sexy new hotness in them and they can be slow to integrate features rolled out by competitors (though they usually do eventually). But you do generally get something that works and does exactly what it says it's gonna do, plus solid support if you do need anything. At least that's been my experience.

I'm also pretty sure we all agree that Ikelite probably wouldn't be on the table for the OP if they didn't already have an Ikelite housing. Ikelite strobes quickly become not a great value when used with other brand housings because of the cost of adapters, bulkheads, etc... to make it all work right. Unless you already own the strobes.

 

[TostitoBandito]

Maybe relevant to this discussion, I noticed Ikelite just refreshed their DS-161 strobe into two models. The DS-165, and the RC-165. The DS-165 appears to be just a refreshed DS-161, but interestingly they split off the RC-165 which is the same strobe with a fiber optic connection in place of the Ikelite electrical connection. So they now make a native fiber optic strobe, which seems to make them more viable for people who might want to look at them for use with non-Ikelite housings.

 

[davehicks]

Maybe relevant to this discussion, I noticed Ikelite just refreshed their DS-161 strobe into two models. The DS-165, and the RC-165. The DS-165 appears to be just a refreshed DS-161, but interestingly they split off the RC-165 which is the same strobe with a fiber optic connection in place of the Ikelite electrical connection. So they now make a native fiber optic strobe, which seems to make them more viable for people who might want to look at them for use with non-Ikelite housings.

That's great. I'm glad to see Ikelite responding to user preferences in this way. I feel like they really tied themselves to their proprietary TTL solutions with electrical sync when lots of power users don't want or need TTL anymore.

My one gripe about the Ikelite strobes is that the Battery Lever mechanism would constantly get jammed with silt and sand. You can flush it out fairly easily, but you need to do it all the time and it risks getting the battery internals wet. You basically have to remove the battery, put it lever up under a running faucet and hope you don't flood it as you manipulate the lever and spring. If you shore dive with any frequency this is a real pain in the b#tt!

 

[Wobbegong_th]

I'd been using Ikelite Housing sine about 1996-1997. Current one is my 5th Ikelite Housing (Olympus EM5III/OM System OM5).
First one in 1996, I bought a 2nd hand Canon AE-1 (Film camera that I had at that time) housing off the internet and got it shipped from USA to Thailand. Which I found out that there's a leak due to corrosion at the strobe connection point. I'd e-mail Ikelite, got the reply, send just the backplate to USA. Ikelite replace the whole new back plate for me and charged me only shipping cost.

Later, when it come to Digital Camera, I'd used Olympus C-7070, Canon G16, Canon S95, all in Ikelite Housing. I got Ikelite DS-125 Strobe when I bought the Oly C-7070 and been using it as Single strobe with hard-wired TTL since.
When I got the Canon G16, Ikelite released DS-161 and had an 'upgrade' offer to convert their old DS-125 to DS-161, which I did. Unfortunately, Canon G16 in manual mode will not send TTL signal out - this is Canon design. So I'd been either using the stobe in manual, or TTL when I use Aperture priority.
The Housing for Canon S95 was actually for my wife, which she still use. as the camera has no hotshoe, so it's fiberoptic only. I got her Inon strobe, S200 may be, which got flooded in about 2 years. (I got Inon strobe for her as others in our dive group use this model, so she can get consultation from others.)

About 2 years go, the Canon G16 is dying out, screen starting to blacked out, button sticking, etc. So I decided to change camera to Olympus EM5III. It's older model but with the release of OM System OM-5, I would be able to get replacement body - they're physically the same. And I got Ikelite Housing for Olympus EM5III and TTL dongle. DS-161, even after 9-10 years, of not heavy use, were still working fine. The battery starting to show its age - lost charge when stored for over 3 months, taking long time to initial chage after storage - but once it's fully charged, it work.
Last year, I got 2nd strobe, DS-162 and dual Sync cord, it's the one with Video light. (I don't think they show this on the website anymore. - only the DS-232.) I still shoot all Photo with Camera in Manual Mode and both strobes set to TTL.
There's some frustration when set up as I think my camera hotshoe probably had some worn-out spot for the TTL connection. But once I got it properly aligned, there was no issue. I just came back from a 3 night liveabord trip where I only had setup the hotshoe properly once and leave it there - it worked for the whole trip.

In the recent week, Ikelite just announce a couple of New Strobes. This time, they go fiberoptic. Check out the links below. Currently they said the Fiberoptic TTL on these new strobe are compatible with Canon (with their TTL Fiberoptic Additional part), Olympus, Panasonic. Nikon and Sony compatibility will follow soon - that's what they said.

Big strobe - Ikelite RC-165

Small Strobe - Ecko