Ignorant DIR Question

[TSandM]

Well said, lamont!

 

[Vayu]

Lamont, I agree with you as well. I hope you are not contributing that wetnotes statement to me. I still think it is important to realize that it is a holistic system and that while bits and pieces of that system may be useful to recreational divers it is essentially still not "DIR-Lite" and should not be seen as that. If any piece of the system is missing it should not be advertised as DIR at all.

At what point does a "DIR-lite" class draw the line between what is right and what is not? A system like this is more than the sum of its parts. When it all comes togethor there are emergent properties present that will empower the diver. I would be wary of any class that uses the DIR acronym but includes exceptions to the system. The class will probably be useful but the diver has a right to know what is included.
Obviously a "DIR with exceptions" attitude is not DIR at all. Call it something else.

There may be a large number of recreational instructors in the northwest that can teach similar skillsets. There are also a large number that would likely capitilize on the systems name without delivering the same standard of instruction.

The skills and attitudes are more important than the name which is why it is crucial to find a good instructor. For every good instructor there is likely an evil version bumbling around somewhere (and there have been some unfortunate examples of bad instructors in the northwest recently).

I am sure all divers will find any introduction to these skills useful. Regardless it is not DIR lite because it is some other animal altogethor.

 

[ScubaMilo]

I would agree very well stated!(Vayu)
So as far as DIR light OR kinda DIR goes, its crap!!!!
Can you practice the skills? YES.
Can you become a better diver by doing so? YES
Can you become a safer diver by doing so? YES
Do you need to adopt the gear to do any of this? NO
Are you kind of DIR if you do these things? NO
Think about what is being asked.
Can you take a Doing It Right Light class.
Or can you take a kinda Doing It Right class.
The bottom line is you are either doing it right or your not.
It's like being kinda pregnant it can't be done.:shakehead

Now as far as regular training of buoyancy skills, emergency procedures and sit awarness these are great skills that every diver should strive to have.
But having them does not make you DIR or kinda DIR.
It simply makes you a better diver!

Dir is holistic in nature.:11:
Sorry,
Milo

 

[TSandM]

Vayu, I recognize and empathize with your commitment to the system. The problem lies in the question, "What is DIR?" I think we can all agree with some core ideas, but then you get into the details, and at what deviation from doctrine are you "no longer DIR"? For example, and this is a simple one: GUE has gone back and forth about light cord over or under the long hose. Right now, it's over. 5thD-x teaches under. Are they not DIR?

GUE has just changed the mnemonic sequence for the pre-dive checklist from SADDDD to GUE EDGE. I can't remember the new one, so I'm still using SADDDD, as is everybody I know, since nobody has been schooled with the new mnemonic yet. Are we all not DIR any more?

See how ridiculous it gets?

A basic standardized equipment setup, strong personal skills, a commitment to team diving and sharp emergency procedures. As the complexity of the dive increases, increase the strictness of the standardization to correspond.

Not only do I think you can be a little bit DIR, but I think almost all of us are. if you look at ALL the prescriptions, we all fall short somewhere.

I think you might be mixing your Kool-Aid a little too strong at times

 

[ScubaMilo]

Vayu, I recognize and empathize with your commitment to the system. The problem lies in the question, "What is DIR?" I think we can all agree with some core ideas, but then you get into the details, and at what deviation from doctrine are you "no longer DIR"? For example, and this is a simple one: GUE has gone back and forth about light cord over or under the long hose. Right now, it's over. 5thD-x teaches under. Are they not DIR?

GUE has just changed the mnemonic sequence for the pre-dive checklist from SADDDD to GUE EDGE. I can't remember the new one, so I'm still using SADDDD, as is everybody I know, since nobody has been schooled with the new mnemonic yet. Are we all not DIR any more?

See how ridiculous it gets?

A basic standardized equipment setup, strong personal skills, a commitment to team diving and sharp emergency procedures. As the complexity of the dive increases, increase the strictness of the standardization to correspond.

Not only do I think you can be a little bit DIR, but I think almost all of us are. if you look at ALL the prescriptions, we all fall short somewhere.

I think you might be mixing your Kool-Aid a little too strong at times

I would agree that at times it does seem ridiculous.
But striving to do things right is what it's all about.
setteling on half measures or flat deciding to take a leave parts of the system
is completly different than arguing about a light cord or which mnemonic to use.
One is adopting the system and trying to refine it the other is just doing your own thing completely.

just my 2 cents(take it for what it's worth.)
Milo

 

[Vayu]

You know I hate those jonestown references...

I'm not here to bicker with anyone. I really hope we don't stray too far off and get into any political debates. The core ideas are what matters. I trained with the light cord over the long hose. I am well aware that 5th-D does it under and additionally the Helios manual has the cord routed under. These things change and it is up to the diver to use common sense and adopt best practices or to seek guidelines from his or her instructors and mentors. The system will continue to evolve. I am sure no one here really cares if I think they are DIR or not. Regardless of my opinion there are some values that are not likely to change. I would be proud to call a diver that embraces those values my buddy.

 

[lamont]

Lamont, I agree with you as well. I hope you are not contributing that wetnotes statement to me. I still think it is important to realize that it is a holistic system and that while bits and pieces of that system may be useful to recreational divers it is essentially still not "DIR-Lite" and should not be seen as that. If any piece of the system is missing it should not be advertised as DIR at all.

At what point does a "DIR-lite" class draw the line between what is right and what is not? A system like this is more than the sum of its parts. When it all comes togethor there are emergent properties present that will empower the diver. I would be wary of any class that uses the DIR acronym but includes exceptions to the system. The class will probably be useful but the diver has a right to know what is included.
Obviously a "DIR with exceptions" attitude is not DIR at all. Call it something else.

There may be a large number of recreational instructors in the northwest that can teach similar skillsets. There are also a large number that would likely capitilize on the systems name without delivering the same standard of instruction.

The skills and attitudes are more important than the name which is why it is crucial to find a good instructor. For every good instructor there is likely an evil version bumbling around somewhere (and there have been some unfortunate examples of bad instructors in the northwest recently).

I am sure all divers will find any introduction to these skills useful. Regardless it is not DIR lite because it is some other animal altogethor.

The OP was the one asking for "DIR Lite" and there's no reason to believe that the OP would understand or care about the issues that brings up with actual DIR or GUE divers that have bought into the team diving / holistic approach philosophy. I would agree that I would prefer to keep the name different, and I think that's one reason why Steve White's workshop is called "Back to Basics" since it isn't a DIR or GUE workshop. It doesn't make any sense, though, to beat up the OP about his use of the term "DIR Lite". Its obvious what the OP is looking for, what the OPs interest is and it doesn't make any sense to immediately try to push holistic diving down the OPs throat because of a clumsy wording that happened to push some buttons. If we want actual DIR diving to be better accepted, and thereby to have more dive buddies and support divers, the PR needs to be a little bit better. If what people like the OP get exposed to is a bunch of helpful people who point them at workshops where they get better basic skills and get exposure to DIR and it makes their diving better that can only help -- but if their first exposure to DIR is a bunch of people attacking them over small semantic issues that they're not in a position to understand or appreciate yet, then that's going to leave a bad taste in their mouth. That hurts diving in general because there's a lot from DIR which recreational divers could borrow, and it hurts DIR because it further limits the pool of divers who might grow into DIR divers in the future. We need to stop pissing off recreational divers just to prove that we're more hardcore DIR than anyone else.

 

[lamont]

GUE has just changed the mnemonic sequence for the pre-dive checklist from SADDDD to GUE EDGE. I can't remember the new one, so I'm still using SADDDD, as is everybody I know, since nobody has been schooled with the new mnemonic yet. Are we all not DIR any more?

See how ridiculous it gets?

The Tech 2 / Cave 2 guys doing 320 fsw dives on the Admiral Sampson are now no longer DIR because they're going to have to unlearn how they've been organizing their pocket contents as well...

 

[Vayu]

Fair enough... But i'm really not hardcore. My intentions are not to beat up the OP and I don't care where anyones wetnotes are :happyjaz:

But there is a point where the buck has to stop... and its here!

 

[Charlie99]

The OP was the one asking for "DIR Lite" and there's no reason to believe that the OP would understand or care about the issues that brings up with actual DIR or GUE divers that have bought into the team diving / holistic approach philosophy. I would agree that I would prefer to keep the name different, and I think that's one reason why Steve White's workshop is called "Back to Basics" since it isn't a DIR or GUE workshop.

Just looking at their website it looks like the 5thdx Essentials Course is pretty much DIR Lite. It is on air, not EAN32, and the only required gear is either a 5' or 7' hose and non-split fins.