Ignorant DIR Question

[TSandM]

And by the way, there have been lots of people in the past who had no plans to get into tech/cave diving, but after diving enough that's what happened anyway.

I can attest to this!

One of the things that has made DIR-F so popular is that it is one of the only places where this level of skill is taught to recreational divers. You can get the same type of education from a cavern class as well. And there ARE some instructors who teach these skills and concepts (because there IS more to DIR-F than learning the kicks and the S-drill) outside of either DIR or technical classes. It's just not easy to find them.

As far as the DIR system being either necessary or useful for pure recreational diving goes, it is certainly not necessary. But improving one's skills makes ALL diving more enjoyable, and the team ethos of DIR makes it possible to go anywhere and jump in the water with someone with whom you have never dived before, and execute a smooth, coordinated and thoroughly enjoyable dive. I've done this now in several places. In fact, as I have read the horror stories of "instabuddies" and other buddy-related problems, I've been more and more appreciative of DIR as a system that, if you observe it, just prevents all of those issues.

 

[albane]

Thanks for the blunt answer. No problem with your honesty, I appreciate it. And it helps to understand. The only question I have with what you've said is with the "I'll only tolerate non DIR divers..." part. Do you mean in pursuit of DIR goals or in diving in general?

Please allow me to explain tolerate.

I am not the DIR diver who is going to stand on a soap box because of your equipment or whatever. There has been to much of that in the past. You are free to do what you wish. That doesn't mean you qualify to join my team.

My team is comprised of my closest friends and family.
I value their safety above all else. We routinely practice our skills in the unlikely event that something would go wrong. A major aspect of DIR diving, focusses on team awareness. For example where does the 3rd team member go in an out of air situation? The unaware diver would just keep swimming along looking at the reef. The alert trained diver would move to an advantage position so that he/she could render aid if necessary. The popularity of DIR diving is that the bar has been set high. People like a challenge. One they felt was met when the received there open water c card.

The benefits of good buoyancy, balance, trim, team work, and dive planning are easy to see.
I have yet to meet someone born with these skills. Not only must these skills be learned, they should be practiced and mastered. The F in DIR-F stands for fundamentals. Basic fundamental skills that facilitate diving. So by tolerate, I mean one can join my team as long as they are working on the goal. But if one is closed minded, stuck in old ways, and unable to learn form such a proven method, then I absolutely will not expose my daughter to there diving. It’s not a judgment on them as a person, it’s just that my 13 year old daughter, is just too new to diving to expose her to unnecessary risk.

My motives are personal, other folks will have different reasons for their behavior concerning the non indoctrinated. I can not speak for them. I think bashing on the non DIR diver is counter productive and rude. I prefer to lead by example. The common argument is that there is more than one way to do this stuff. But this system is simple an has proven to work in many situations.
Good luck on your quest.
May you find success in your endeavor.

Respectfully,

Al Bane

 

[joe rock]

I can attest to this!

One of the things that has made DIR-F so popular is that it is one of the only places where this level of skill is taught to recreational divers. You can get the same type of education from a cavern class as well. And there ARE some instructors who teach these skills and concepts (because there IS more to DIR-F than learning the kicks and the S-drill) outside of either DIR or technical classes. It's just not easy to find them.

As far as the DIR system being either necessary or useful for pure recreational diving goes, it is certainly not necessary. But improving one's skills makes ALL diving more enjoyable, and the team ethos of DIR makes it possible to go anywhere and jump in the water with someone with whom you have never dived before, and execute a smooth, coordinated and thoroughly enjoyable dive. I've done this now in several places. In fact, as I have read the horror stories of "instabuddies" and other buddy-related problems, I've been more and more appreciative of DIR as a system that, if you observe it, just prevents all of those issues.

Lynn, your comments hit right on my thought process for asking the question in the first place. The answers I'm getting here from people like yourself, Floater, Herman and others are helping a lot and are helping me understand a little bit more about DIR.

 

[ScubaMilo]

Not to try to start the DIR not DIR thread rolling.
But I would have to agree with Al Bane on the point that DIR is a holistic aproach to diving.
The equiptment, though a small part of the approach is a part of the approach.
To have standarized equiptment means that during an emergency I know where and how your equiptment works.
If you adopted only the skill set from fundies and not the equiptment and say we went on a dive together(hypothetically).
You could then show up in a poodle jacket with an air source hanging from your inflator hose. Also you could choose to put your wetnotes in your bc pockets, carry no backup mask and possibly carry a pre rigged spool and SMB clipped to d-ring on your weight belt.(not to even mention hose and gauge configuration)
Now I'm not trying to say that is what you would do but it is all possible if the equiptment standards are ignored.
Now in the event of an emergency I would be slow at the least in locating any of your equiptment.
So hopefully you can see on a given dive you would be more of a liability than an asset.
This is why I think that Al Bane is 100% right I also would not tolerate this unless you were at least working toward Doing It Right.
This is nothing personal against non DIR divers and also not meant to bash anyone.
Just a simple observation of the way the system works.
Hope you can see I'm not trying to preach by all means take it or leave it.
But for the sake of others do one or the other.
Hope this helps,
Milo

 

[lamont]

Hi guys and girls. Obviously I don't dive DIR. I am intrigued by the dedication to skill development, but not crazy about the insistance in gear configuration. I view myself as a recreational diver. I have no desire to go very deep (100' - 130' is plenty deep and there better be something down there I want to see), no deco, no cave, no wreck penetration. I understand the rational for the consistancy, but with a few exceptions, don't see the applicability for the type diving I do.

My question :10:. With all due respect, is there a "DIR light" class where you can learn the skills without the rigid equipment requirement? I know it can be learned in a non-DIR situation but finding a mentor is the tought part.

There is no official GUE pre-DIRF course. There are workshops that have been setup by various different GUE or ex-GUE instructors which address the kinds of needs that you've got right now. The 5thd-x guys in Monterey offer the essentials of DIR course and Steve White in Seattle offers a Back to Basics course which is the kind of instruction that you're looking for. They cover the basic skills like buoyancy, trim and s-drills without requiring rigid adherence to DIR.

And please ignore most of the "holistic approach to diving" guys in this thread. There is a level where that level of commitment is required, but you are not indicating any interesting in that level of diving. For recreational diving, being able to do basic skills such as clearing your mask at depth, doing s-drills, using trim and anti-silting kicks to preserve the viz, practicing basic gas management and good buddy skills are really what is required to dive safely -- which is what those courses focus on. You do not need to agree on pocket contents in order to dive safely at recreational depths. You may find, however, that as you get exposed to it, more of it makes sense to you and you wind up looking more and more like a DIR diver...

 

[jhoey]

There is no official GUE pre-DIRF course.

There isn't yet, but indications are that GUE will soon be offering a DIR open water course of some kind. I'm sure it'll be a long, and probably expensive, course; the whole point is that it's much more comprehensive than other OW courses, designed to take students from zero to the equivalent of DIR-F.

Dan Mackay wrote an article about it in the latest Quest, and he certainly mentioned it on my fundies course in October, but I don't think it's been officially rolled out yet. I haven't seen any such course posted on the GUE website, anyway.

Do any GUE instructors on the board have any more information on this?

EDIT: I don't wish to hijack this thread, if anyone has more info it might be nice to create a new thread -- I'm sure lots of people would find it worth discussing...

 

[*Floater*]

EDIT: I don't wish to hijack this thread, if anyone has more info it might be nice to create a new thread -- I'm sure lots of people would find it worth discussing...

It's been discussed before.

 

[Charlie99]

There isn't yet, but indications are that GUE will soon be offering a DIR open water course of some kind.

It's been "soon" for at least a couple of years. Late last year I was told by GUE HQ that the text for the class, Submerged, would be out first quarter 2006. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Peter Guy]

Joe -- I'm painfully aware of your issue and I'd suggest you talk to the people at Breakthrough Diving (5th DX) to see if they/you can put together an "Essentials" class. After living through GUE's Fundamentals (vicariously), it is my humble opinion that Essentials is Fundies with a human attitude. The two classes are VERY similar (not surprisingly) but Essentials is a workshop (no pass/no fail/no testing) while Fundies is a class that one must pass in order to be qualified to take the "higher" GUE classes.

I took Essentials in lieu of taking Fundies and I have absolutely no regrets. I did it to bring peace to my household and it has now led me to Breakthrough's Rec 2 course AND a local wreck penetration workshop (all in preparation for doing a Cavern course in March).

Are my "fundamental skills" as good as my wife's? No -- but not because she took Fundies and I took Essentials. The difference is that she has practiced and practiced and practiced her skills so that she could get a pass from GUE -- I've been doing other things but do plan to match her skill level by the time we go to Mexico in March.

As a "techreational" diver, I believe most of us can benefit greatly by being exposed to the "Essentials of Diving" as taught by Breakthrough Diving. BTW, the only equipment I needed for the class was a 5ft hose on my primary, a bungied backup, non-split fins and a spool & SMB -- and since I had all those, it wasn't a big deal! I was the only person in my class NOT in a BP/W but there was a comment made that my trim, etc. was excellent (that is until the instructor realized it was me and not one of the others who were "properly" attired ).

 

[SparticleBrane]

I was the only person in my class NOT in a BP/W but there was a comment made that my trim, etc. was excellent (that is until the instructor realized it was me and not one of the others who were "properly" attired ).

Yet another example showing that having the "right" equipment doesn't make one a good diver.