Ignorant DIR Question

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People still die at recreational depths. It is my firm belief that standardization and a commited team effort would prevent alot of these accidents as well.

A basically standardized setup, good personal skills, a commitment to team diving, and sharp emergency procedures is enough for an Edmonds dive.

That is my point! I know tons of recreational divers who don't have any of the above. The original poster won't regret training this way (if thats what they end up doing).
 
Vayu:
People still die at recreational depths. It is my firm belief that standardization and a commited team effort would prevent alot of these accidents as well.

That is my point! I know tons of recreational divers who don't have any of the above. The original poster won't regret training this way (if thats what they end up doing).
No one's going to die because of where they stow their wet notes ... let's not be silly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I agree with Dan MacKay (GUE Instructor) when he wrote: "Too often DIR has been billed as an all or nothing style. I prefer to think that it is best to dive completely DIR, but if not, it is better to dive a little DIR than not dive DIR at all."
 
Bob, I do not care where people put their wet notes. I am simply saying that the concepts in the DIR philosophy can increase safety even in a recreational setting.
 
Vayu:
Bob, I do not care where people put their wet notes. I am simply saying that the concepts in the DIR philosophy can increase safety even in a recreational setting.
Of course it can ... and what I'm saying is that DIR didn't invent any of those concepts. They simply packaged them into a system for a specific purpose (WKPP) ... which then evolved into the system called DIR that you are familiar with.

The "all or nothing" attitude is only relevent to those who want to "be DIR". To most of the people I dive with who have been through some level of DIR training, the label itself is meaningless.

The skills to increase safety in a recreational setting you refer to is far more commonly taught outside of DIR training than you might imagine ... at least, it is in my area ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I understand what you are saying. In my area it is not common to see divers with any level of awareness or respect to the water. In this area many instructors are worse than the students they are pumping out. Good divers are few and far between. I would come dive up near you but it is a bit too cold and the sharks are bigger... :sharkattack:
 
NWGratefulDiver:
...
The skills to increase safety in a recreational setting you refer to is far more commonly taught outside of DIR training than you might imagine ... at least, it is in my area ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Would be nice to have that here. We're lucky to have a small group of committed divers, let alone training good skills.
 
We're fortunate in that ... (a) a growing number of recreational dive instructors have taken at least DIR-F and are integrating some of those skills into their recreational training ... (b) we have a large and pretty friendly local DIR community who doesn't really worry about segregating themselves from the local non-DIR population ... and (c) there are a lot of competent non-DIR (NAUI, IANTD, TDI) technical instructors available to those of us who want to learn from them.

During the warmer months we run regular "newbie/mentor" dives ... and the majority of the mentors who show up to get paired up with a new diver are people with some level of DIR training.

One can learn a lot simply through exposure to good divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
NWGratefulDiver:
No one's going to die because of where they stow their wet notes ... let's not be silly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yup, and realistically recreational divers aren't going to die just because they're diving a Zeagle Ranger. Plastic snaps on their webbing won't kill them either. Neither will bungee wings of death. I've also yet to see a recreational fatality where the preference for an AI computer over an SPG was directly implicated. What most divers need is better gas management and dive planning, practicing mask clearing and s-drills, better buoyancy control and trim and anti-silting kicks would really help. That is what the original poster was looking for in a "DIR lite" kind of class. Pulling out the "holistic approach" and "all or nothing" arguments are entirely correct dogma but contribute nothing useful to the discussion that the OP was starting and only serve to make DIR look bad to the rest of the world. If you want to talk about *my* diving and pull out the "holistic approach" stuff it would make sense, but not the OPs diving. The whole world does not have to be DIR compliant down to the location of the wetnotes in the correct pocket to dive safely. But the idea that a lot of what DIR has borrowed over the years would be useful if more widely borrowed by recreational divers I think is obvious.
 
lamont:
Yup, and realistically recreational divers aren't going to die just because they're diving a Zeagle Ranger. Plastic snaps on their webbing won't kill them either. Neither will bungee wings of death. I've also yet to see a recreational fatality where the preference for an AI computer over an SPG was directly implicated. What most divers need is better gas management and dive planning, practicing mask clearing and s-drills, better buoyancy control and trim and anti-silting kicks would really help. That is what the original poster was looking for in a "DIR lite" kind of class. Pulling out the "holistic approach" and "all or nothing" arguments are entirely correct dogma but contribute nothing useful to the discussion that the OP was starting and only serve to make DIR look bad to the rest of the world. If you want to talk about *my* diving and pull out the "holistic approach" stuff it would make sense, but not the OPs diving. The whole world does not have to be DIR compliant down to the location of the wetnotes in the correct pocket to dive safely. But the idea that a lot of what DIR has borrowed over the years would be useful if more widely borrowed by recreational divers I think is obvious.

Very well stated :clapping:
 
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