If you use a long hose configuration...

[Chrisk919]

There is no reason that the octopus second would be any less 100% than a necklaced secondary.

Yeah, mine was a much older unit but in all honesty it breathed better (even at depth) than the primary I had at the time. I only ditched it because I couldn't get anyone to service it anymore (thanks Mares) and I haven't made the move to self-service.

 

[rjack321]

I'm not arguing against a long-hose primary donate (I'm a convert)... but I'm (morbidly?) interested in the scenario of how a 'safe second/octopus' isn't 100% functioning? I used to breathe off mine on safety stops just to be sure it was working, but maybe that's the issue - ignored gear and a split mouthpiece.

On top of the split mouthpiece, stuffed under a shoulder strap, or in a pocket nonsense, or dragging along behind and inaccessible...

exhaust valve folded over
ripped or leaking diaphragm
full of sand, mud, or coral chips
pebble under the demand lever or gunk in the demand spring or behind the poppet
the mouth-piece itself ripping off as its deployed

Probably more, these are off the top of my head

 

[inquis]

If I am horizontal the problem exists if I am approached from below or above.

Neither is an issue, and I think you're over thinking this. You will easily see them if below you. If behind/above, there's enough slack for them to start breathing if they pull from the right. If they pull from the left you will naturally rotate giving more slack.

 

[Nemrod]

Yeah, mine was a much older unit but in all honesty it breathed better (even at depth) than the primary I had at the time. I only ditched it because I couldn't get anyone to service it anymore (thanks Mares) and I haven't made the move to self-service.

And that being the case, maybe it is time for you to go to long hose primary donation, which for open water could simply be a 40 inches hose and a swivel. Baby steps, you may not need a 72 inches hose now or ever, a 40 or 60 would be a good choice. A 40 inches hose is fast to deploy, comfortable to use and perfect for open water sport diving. And it does not go around your neck though as many have said, that is a non issue. Oh, and buy a new second stage equal to or better. It is fun spending other people's money .

 

[steinbil]

Given the scenario is a panicked diver, there are precisely 0 seconds before it's ripped from my mouth and yanked to theirs. "how much time do you need" is an irrelevancy because said diver won't wait.

Just wanted to point out that with more situational and team awareness, the chance of being surprised by a panicked diver is diminishing. And since you mentioned "the GUE model", it might interest you to know that those are some of the pillars of GUE training. Here's a few things to consider:

- There will be signs. Increased breathing rate. Erratic movements. Lack of awareness. Breakdown of communication and fundamental skills. Panic rarely happens instantly. Usually it's caused by a build up of stress, and/or not appropriately dealing with an issue. Pay attention to your buddy/team, and you will probably see it coming. Even better, if you can see it coming, often you can help solve the issue or calm your buddy down before they panic.

- Even a diver approaching you from behind, unseen, you will probably hear – they are swimming hard to catch up with you, breathing hard, possibly screaming in their regulator if they're desperate. Also, if they are TRULY panicked, they might just bolt for the surface and refuse any regulator anyway.

- My buddy/team is never completely out of my sight for more than a minute or so. In any scenario where we can see each others light beam, that is our reference. If that light beam is not moving calmly and predictably, I will investigate. If it disappears from view for more than 30-40 seconds, I will investigate. With good light communication, it's incredible how much you can read from the light beam.

- In the few instances where you can't see a light beam, like on descent/ascent or in tropical water on a bright sunny day, make sure you have visual contact. On ascent/descent a GUE diver will typically be in a diamond formation, so we can all see each others faces and quickly react to any potential issue, since this is the most dangerous part of the dive. This also facilitates team verification of gas switches on a technical dive, again possibly the most lethal part of a tech dive. In a recreational setting it's still a good idea, because there are so many issues that can arise. Descent: somebody forgot to open their valve all the way, inflator hose disconnected, drysuit hose disconnected, equalization issues leading to team separation, regulator freeflow when inflating the wing, inflator sticking after inflating; Ascent: low on gas, reverse squeeze, not venting/properly leading to loss of buoyancy control, DCS etc.

- If I'm diving with an unknown buddy, especially a non-GUE diver, I will watch them like a hawk under water. First of all, I would be vigilant with pre-dive checks and make sure we agree on a gas plan, communication and a general dive plan. I would also see how familiar they are with setting up their gear, and how comfortable they are before we get in the water. I will be close to them and keep them in view. I would avoid swimming single file unless I was in the back, and prefer to stay side by side. I will check their gas supply. I will keep an eye out for any signs of stress. I will also not assume that they are able or willing to help me underwater, so that will influence what kind of exposure and severity of dive I'm comfortable doing. Yes, this is not as fun as diving with a good team mate that you can trust. Which is why many GUE divers prefer to dive with other GUE divers or those that have similar training and procedures – it makes the dive more enjoyable when you don't feel like you have to watch your buddy at all times.

 

[Chrisk919]

And that being the case, maybe it is time for you to go to long hose primary donation, which for open water could simply be a 40 inches hose and a swivel. Baby steps, you may not need a 72 inches hose now or ever, a 40 or 60 would be a good choice. A 40 inches hose is fast to deploy, comfortable to use and perfect for open water sport diving. And it does not go around your neck though as many have said, that is a non issue. Oh, and buy a new second stage equal to or better. It is fun spending other people's money .

Oh no that was a long time ago. I'm already a convert (see my current profile photo). I'm using a 60" hose and a necklaced secondary of equal strength.

And I started my son (who finally decided he wanted to dive) on a primary donate 48" hose and BP/W - we're not going back now lol.