If you could change one thing about the dive industry, what would it be??

[MikeFerrara]

As an instructor and a dive shop owner I too think training (or the end result of training) is lousy. As I see it the fault is not in the standards but in the lack of enforcement of the intent of the standards. But in general, divers are getting what they (as a market) have asked for, fast and cheap. The industry/market rewards junk. In retail - large inventories of pretty colored cheap garbage makes money. In training - Pumping them through fast and selling the inventory above (as they head off to the Caribbean) makes money. This is what the consumer wants. You people just would not believe some of the conversations I have had both with manufacturers reps and with the average off the street diver. The reps sure know their market. They are flip sides of a coin. Bottom line I think I prefer an educated consumer....but there are so..so..few.

Also I have issue with the resort DM's who take novice divers deep and inside wrecks deep and in doing so contradict a large portion of what I try to teach. The average diver survives because they have lots of supervision and the dives are preplanned for them. It's not diving but underwater tourism.

There you go, I just named the two biggest money making aspects of this business. Seems my refusal to participate explains our modest sales figures.

 

[devilfish]

Now that's a can of worms.
I would like to see a much better Instructor training resulting in better and more motivated divers.
A six month wonder is teaching divers who some will become six month wonders, who are teaching...... The dilution is massive over time.
The industry is in a constant search for new customers competing with other sports. That is all well, we need a new input of divers to keep the industry going. But one thing that is neglected in pursuit of a quick buck is quality diver training. These weeknd glorified resort courses just don't make it. The drop out rate is well into 85% of those that got the "C" card and maybe made one dive and never dove again. Why are we not concentrating on keeping those that we already got diving. A small number could easily double the business. But yet, we get them, sell em mask, fins and snorkel which is the biggest profit margin, and we loose them. The only way we can keep them is through better training. The first 120 seconds of the first open water training dive often makes the differance between an avid diver and a drop out. They get up early in the morning, drive a long way, jump in cold dark and scarry water, they are poortly trained and prepared, they are scarred, intimidated, clumsy, inadaquate, peer pressure, their ears hurt, they are cold, they bolt, they wish it was over. Once it is and they get their "C" card, we are kidding ourselves that the next weekend they will get up early just to go through that experiance again. I am not talking about the divers that hang out here on this forum. Just because they are here shows they are interested and involved. I am talking about the others out there that we don't ever hear from.

 

[Paul168341]

I think that Devilfish and Mike F. said it best, I would like to echo their statements.

 

[MikeS]

A single unified, not for profit, certification agency. This agency would not be allowed to provide training, only certification. Testing would be fee bases and pass or fail. You pay your money and take the test. If you pass you get certified if you fail you don’t.

Poor training would be self-limiting! If none of your students pass the test you’ll soon be out of business. The student pass/fail record of a particular trainer would provide a subjective measure of the quality of training.

Mike

 

[devilfish]

That's an ambitious proposition. Some in the industry talked about that concept some years ago. The problem is, who is going to be the evaluators? We do have a system like this on a small scale. Most agencies do have an "evaluator" coming over in the last stage of an instructor course to qualify Instructors. Well, the way I see it around, there are no "bad" divers, only bad Instructors who took someone's money and didn't teach them anything. How did they become Instructors? I have seen some of the evaluators. What's wrong?
The industry is not generating enough good new people. Look at the dive show speaker circuit. Most speakers are the same old people every year getting older, me included. There is very little new blood coming in. Why? I think because the way training is today we are not producing divers who's diving is a lifestyle, we are only teaching diving as an occasional side recreation. The way dive training is conducted today, they don't get hooked. A quick weekend course or a home study cd-rom will not hook them. I don't care what some of the magazines are saying, the industry is shrinking and it has nothing to do with the economy or other sports. People spend thousends of dollars on glorified bikes, skis, health spas, etc, but they will not spend the money on scuba gear. They are not hooked.

 

[ScubyDoo]

People who constantly gripe about poor training.

Im a new diver who believes I recieved first rate training through PADI. Most of those who are always ragging on current training standards seem to be those who took thier initial training before I was born. They have had a long time to develop thier skills, and its oh so easy to rag on new divers coming out. Im betting they werent too swooft right when they were newbies either!

 

[Walter]

ScubyDoo,

"Most of those who are always ragging on current training standards seem to be those who took thier initial training before I was born."

You were 21 years old when I received my initial training. I think most classes are poor and most instructors are incompetent.

"Im a new diver who believes I recieved first rate training through PADI."

There certainly are excellent PADI instructors out there teaching. I sincerely hope you learned from one. It is possible you have nothing with which to compare your (good or bad) training.

"Im betting they werent too swooft right when they were newbies either!"

My instructor still uses me as an example of how far you can go if you keep working at it. From his worst student ever to instructor trainer. The difference is he took the time to teach me how to do all the skills.

June,

"Get the training standardized across the agencies."

Is this really a good idea? Would this bring everyone up? Or would it bring everyone down?

Of even more importance, IMHO, is the difference in philosophies. I have a serious disagreement with the philosophy of at least one agency. Would it be right to force either of us to change? I believe I am right. Those who disagree with me believe they are right. I believe we have a fundamental right to keep to our own positions and beliefs. Forcing anyone to switch would be wrong. Make them all the same and there's no place to go if you disagree.

"Another "vote" for improvement on training.......less finger pointing between all the agencies"

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how to work towards the first without some of the second unless you are looking for individual instructors to improve their classes without changing any agency's standards. I'm in favor of instructors improving their individual classes, but I'm also in favor of all agencies raising standards.

MikeFerrara,

"enforcement of the intent of the standards"

Intent is difficult. It makes it easier if we would write the standards simply in plain language. When several instructors of a given agency can't agree on what that agency requires I see a problem in clarity.

"in general, divers are getting what they (as a market) have asked for, fast and cheap."

It's a shame, but it is very true.

"Also I have issue with the resort DM's who take novice divers deep and inside wrecks deep and in doing so contradict a large portion of what I try to teach. The average diver survives because they have lots of supervision and the dives are preplanned for them. It's not diving but underwater tourism."

I agree, but it actually goes farther and deeper than that. Many divers can't function adequately on simple dives without a DM holding their hand. I see this as a symptom of a major training problem.

MikeS,

"A single unified, not for profit, certification agency. This agency would not be allowed to provide training, only certification."

I have to disagree with you on this. I'm against Big Brother in any form. Even if I weren't philosophically opposed to the concept, I don't think it would be practical.

Lots of good thoughts in this thread.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Considering most of the fatalities and injuries are occuring with new/very inexperienced divers, I would say something has to be done regarding agency standards. IMO, the book work and theory taught is fairly adequate, but more time has to be spent in the water prior to certification (I'm talking everyone from OW to instructor). I'd like to see at least twice (even three times) as many OW dives required for OW students. Simply put, I believe more time has to be spent in the water with emphasis on skill mastery prior to certification.

My two cents.

Mike

One more thing, rid this sport of deep air courses .

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by ucladiver
I don't intend to offend, but you guys sound like socialists..


I fully agree that too many people think "SUE!" the second something bad happens, but they really have no idea how much money, time, and stress are involved in lawsuit. Nonetheless, you can't take that right away. I'm not sure how much suits affect prices out there anyway.. remember that's what insurance is for .

Socialist???!
You need to re-read my post, lad.
I'm not proposing to take any rights away from you, including your right to pay for litigation overhead and the right to sue. I am proposing that I (and others with like mind) have the right to waive that right in exchange for not paying the litigation overhead, whose cumulative costs at every level of manufacture, distribution, marketing, sales, warranty work, maintenance and repair, especially in the provision of "life support" equipment, is arguably the bulk of the end cost of the item. I am proposing more good old fashioned "caveat emptor" - accepting more of the responsibility for my own well being in exchange for not paying the overhead for those who want the extravagance of our current grossly inefficient litiguous safety net. Those who want to continue the "seller beware" philosophy are free to continue to pay the overhead - but I don't want to be saddled with the expense on thier behalf...
Socialist! HA!
Rick

 

[Ron Brandt]

Change anything in the dive industry ?

Lower the price of boat dives and the cost of gear.

Ron