If a tank fail hydro, what happen to it
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I am not a hydro tester, and all of my tanks have valid hydro.
however in a recent conversation with one of my instructors, he said that it is not illegal to fill and use tanks that don't have a valid hydro, it is just illegal to transport them (full). I have never bothered to try and verify this (until now) as I have no intention of using tanks that don't have a valid hydro. But if true, would be a good reason not to destroy customer's property.
however in a recent conversation with one of my instructors, he said that it is not illegal to fill and use tanks that don't have a valid hydro, it is just illegal to transport them (full). I have never bothered to try and verify this (until now) as I have no intention of using tanks that don't have a valid hydro. But if true, would be a good reason not to destroy customer's property.
Scared Silly
Contributor
Actually it is not until one reaches 1000 lbs of material (including the cylinders) at which point they are hazmat and several rules come into play. One of the rules I believe may be in regards to hydro but I am not sure.
Edit to add - if you fill a cylinder full on the last day of a valid hydro it is legal to use and transport the cylinder afterwards just not fill it. But I am not sure what happens when you get multiple cylinders and reach the hazmat level.
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YOU WoULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TRANSFER ON THE HIGHWAY. IF NOT,, YOU COULD NEVER DISPOSE OF CONDEMNED CYLENDARS TO A DISPOSAL UNIT. OOPS CAPS AGAIN. the 1000 is a nteresting number i had heard (for whats that is worth) that once your load exceeded 1000 dollars of cylendars it required a manifest to transport. all comercial movement requires manifests. Arguments have existed around the area of ,,,does a dive shop transporting tanks to a dive site require a manifest. one side says the transport is not a comercial operation and hence exenpt from the dot requirement of manifests, not commercial becaue the transport is not the primary acticity of the dive shop, only a supporting role . the other says that teaching makes money and all involved therfore becomes the primary business and hence a pickup loaded with tanks requires a manifest. (I dont buy that one) many argue that so long as they do nmot exceed 1000 dollar of tanks in the vehical exempts the dot requirement. On more than one occasion i have hauled my share of tanks with others to not exceed the concept of 1000 dollar tank limit. Seems silly to do that. NOo matter how the regs read it is moot to me as i only haul 2-3 tnks with me and dont require shops to haul for me. As far as filling on the lasdt day of the hydro and transporting the nmnest day i think I read it is allowed. There is something else i came acrooss and that involved the hasmat status . hauling emtpy tanks is different from full tanks as far as dot transport requirenents go. All i hav said may be right in one application but not in another so i will say that i dont now the bottom line.
here is a line from the cfr
2) When a cylinder must be condemned, the requalifier must stamp a series of X's
over the DOT specification number and the marked pressure or stamp “CONDEMNED”
on the shoulder, top head, or neck using a steel stamp. Alternatively, at the
direction of the owner, the requalifier may render the cylinder incapable of
holding pressure. In addition, the requalifier must notify the cylinder owner,
in writing, that the cylinder is condemned and may not be filled with hazardous
material and offered for transportation in commerce where use of a specification
packaging is required.
The word and sounds like it excludes recreational activities and dive shop support in recreational activities.
the and offered for transportation in commerce tends to say you can fill if you want so long as you dont ship it.
It all breaks down to , the arguments that regs dont apply to scuba. And that too soeas not seem right. There is certainly a difference between commerce and recreational transportation and handling. But scuba can not be totally exempt by hiding behind recreational use.
here is a line from the cfr
2) When a cylinder must be condemned, the requalifier must stamp a series of X's
over the DOT specification number and the marked pressure or stamp “CONDEMNED”
on the shoulder, top head, or neck using a steel stamp. Alternatively, at the
direction of the owner, the requalifier may render the cylinder incapable of
holding pressure. In addition, the requalifier must notify the cylinder owner,
in writing, that the cylinder is condemned and may not be filled with hazardous
material and offered for transportation in commerce where use of a specification
packaging is required.
The word and sounds like it excludes recreational activities and dive shop support in recreational activities.
the and offered for transportation in commerce tends to say you can fill if you want so long as you dont ship it.
It all breaks down to , the arguments that regs dont apply to scuba. And that too soeas not seem right. There is certainly a difference between commerce and recreational transportation and handling. But scuba can not be totally exempt by hiding behind recreational use.
Scared Silly
Contributor
Let me clarify my post. First what I posted was WAG. So take it with a grain of salt.
We all agree that there is a hazmat requirement how it pertains to dive ops and private vehicles is of question. But for the argument lets say it does.
Next it is legal to use an out of hydro cylinder but not fill a cylinder commercially. That is one does not need to empty a cylinder if the hydro is out of date. They may be used until the contents are empty (commercially or privately).
Now they question is can one transport a large number of cylinder that meet the hazmat requirement but are all out of hydro??? Or if you meet the hazmat requirements to the cylinders have to be in hydro???
I could see there being a rule if out of hydro and over a certain weight limit, the out of hydro cylinders could not contain say over 40psi of pressure. But I am not sure ... only speculating.
We all agree that there is a hazmat requirement how it pertains to dive ops and private vehicles is of question. But for the argument lets say it does.
Next it is legal to use an out of hydro cylinder but not fill a cylinder commercially. That is one does not need to empty a cylinder if the hydro is out of date. They may be used until the contents are empty (commercially or privately).
Now they question is can one transport a large number of cylinder that meet the hazmat requirement but are all out of hydro??? Or if you meet the hazmat requirements to the cylinders have to be in hydro???
I could see there being a rule if out of hydro and over a certain weight limit, the out of hydro cylinders could not contain say over 40psi of pressure. But I am not sure ... only speculating.
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captain
Contributor
Say a company has a a couple of dozen filled cylinders that haven't yet been used but have expired hydro dates, by the rule that states a cylinder can remain in service until empty with an expired hydro date they can sell, rent and transport the cylinders.
There may be many out of hydro cylinders on a truck being returned to the filling station. If they couldn't be transported how would they get back. Remember these rules apply to all cylinders not just scuba and there are tens of thousands commercial gas cylinders being transported everyday and some percentage are out of hydro.
---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 02:26 PM ----------
There is no regulation that applies to personal tanks being transported in personal vehicles either in or out of hydro full or empty.
I fill my own tanks and many times a tank may have been out of hydro when I filled it.
However just because a tank that has failed hydro was not destroyed it is unwise to continue to use it. Out of hydro and condemned are two very different things.
There may be many out of hydro cylinders on a truck being returned to the filling station. If they couldn't be transported how would they get back. Remember these rules apply to all cylinders not just scuba and there are tens of thousands commercial gas cylinders being transported everyday and some percentage are out of hydro.
---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 02:26 PM ----------
There is no regulation that applies to personal tanks being transported in personal vehicles either in or out of hydro full or empty.
I fill my own tanks and many times a tank may have been out of hydro when I filled it.
However just because a tank that has failed hydro was not destroyed it is unwise to continue to use it. Out of hydro and condemned are two very different things.
from my last psi course there was something said about what has mat was as far as hasmat being compressed air and something about 50psi rings a bell for the hasmat/non-has mat line.
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