IDC/IE Crossover; EASE/Ocean Divers/Rainbow Reef/ProDive MX

[Danseur]

Dear Community,

I could use some advice....

The time has come to crossover to PADI for a new endeavor. For a bit of background I am currently a PDIC OWSI/Nitrox instructor and Cave/Trimix (etc) diver.

So, I have narrowed it down to 4 IDC/IEs in January:

EASE in Vero Beach FL, Rainbow Reef and Ocean Divers in the Keys, and ProDive Mexico.

All were very professional and prompt in their replies to my inquires.

EASE offers a bonus of housing AND basic food and is the least expensive option with great additional "shop" training right after MSDT prep. Seems OK, however, the lake they train in and some of the dives are... lacking a bit.

Rainbow Reef is the next least expensive and in the KEYS (Bonus!). Housing is also available, but eating in the keys can't be cheap. DJ was very prompt in getting back to me and very through in explaining costs, and offered a few nice discounts in particular on training materials. They seem to be well regarded among their Alumni as well.

Ocean Divers, also in the Keys, has a good program as well. Pam was just great and enthusiastic on the phone (giving me her cell number to reach her promptly with any questions) and through our Cave connection we share a few friends and philosophies on diving. Housing is also available. They are doing a few real usable extra in the IE (included) and Pam was very accommodating and determined to work with my on my time-frame and budget. Another real plus is dives on the Spiegel Grove and Duane, neither of which I have dove yet. Did I mention how great Pam was?

Now ProDive Mexico; I got a very through and friendly reply from Anders (Platinum CD) and it turns out we have several mutual friends from shared time in TCI, and may have even met. (Small World, eh?) Their program runs about a week longer than everyone else's. This is a double edged sword as it gives more opportunity to digest everything, but adds expense in time off from work and lodging/food expenses. There is a "Scubapro Equipment Maintence Class" included. Think I'll get enough cave diving in while there to make it worth while? Seems unlikely......

Do any of these programs stand out in any meaningful way? Employment contacts? Training experience? Good or Bad reputation? Accommodations or diving conditions (beyond the obvious rankings)?

Personal experience with these programs, or what happens when you hire graduates of these programs are welcome. I've read anything posted over about the last 5 years on the subject and operations themselves, and still feel I could use a good bit more input....

Bear in mind I can teach well already, but need to learn the "PADI System", and spend some more time on the boat.

THANKS EVERYONE! I could really use the input!

~Justin Bates

--
Justin Bates
TekDive TCI
1-646-319-8252 USA
1-649-345-6369 TCI

 

[SubMariner]

Dear Community,

I could use some advice....

The time has come to crossover to PADI for a new endeavor. For a bit of background I am currently a PDIC OWSI/Nitrox instructor and Cave/Trimix (etc) diver.

So, I have narrowed it down to 4 IDC/IEs in January:

EASE in Vero Beach FL, Rainbow Reef and Ocean Divers in the Keys, and ProDive Mexico.

All were very professional and prompt in their replies to my inquires.

EASE offers a bonus of housing AND basic food and is the least expensive option with great additional "shop" training right after MSDT prep. Seems OK, however, the lake they train in and some of the dives are... lacking a bit.

Rainbow Reef is the next least expensive and in the KEYS (Bonus!). Housing is also available, but eating in the keys can't be cheap. DJ was very prompt in getting back to me and very through in explaining costs, and offered a few nice discounts in particular on training materials. They seem to be well regarded among their Alumni as well.

Ocean Divers, also in the Keys, has a good program as well. Pam was just great and enthusiastic on the phone (giving me her cell number to reach her promptly with any questions) and through our Cave connection we share a few friends and philosophies on diving. Housing is also available. They are doing a few real usable extra in the IE (included) and Pam was very accommodating and determined to work with my on my time-frame and budget. Another real plus is dives on the Spiegel Grove and Duane, neither of which I have dove yet. Did I mention how great Pam was?

Now ProDive Mexico; I got a very through and friendly reply from Anders (Platinum CD) and it turns out we have several mutual friends from shared time in TCI, and may have even met. (Small World, eh?) Their program runs about a week longer than everyone else's. This is a double edged sword as it gives more opportunity to digest everything, but adds expense in time off from work and lodging/food expenses. There is a "Scubapro Equipment Maintence Class" included. Think I'll get enough cave diving in while there to make it worth while? Seems unlikely......

Do any of these programs stand out in any meaningful way? Employment contacts? Training experience? Good or Bad reputation? Accommodations or diving conditions (beyond the obvious rankings)?

Personal experience with these programs, or what happens when you hire graduates of these programs are welcome. I've read anything posted over about the last 5 years on the subject and operations themselves, and still feel I could use a good bit more input....

Bear in mind I can teach well already, but need to learn the "PADI System", and spend some more time on the boat.

First & foremost, as an Instructor with another agency, you are not required to take a full IDC. You are only required to do the OWSI portion of the course, which amounts to approx 4 days out of a 7 day IDC. So I guess my question back to you is why not do a crossover locally? You'll save yourself a lot of time & money. Unless there is a specific goal in mind for your training?

Likewise with doing the MSDT course with a local Course Director.

BTW, if you are already an Instructor in a particular Specialty, you can apply directly to PADI for an Instructor rating in that Specialty provided you have (1) have done at least 20 dives in that Specialty. (2) certified a minimum of 25 divers in that Specialty. (3) Use PADI materials for that Specialty.

Hope this helped,

 

[oly5050user]

why not do idc/ie thru facility you plan to teach out of? If going totally independent then it does not really matter.

 

[MX727]

Just did DM at RR. Excellent facility and people. Hope to see you in January.

 

[Danseur]

Thanks guys for the replies; all very helpful!

I'll be working a combination of independently and for a small shop with no CD nor Staff Instructor. Locally, IDC near NYC in January doesn't exist, and January is the ONLY time I can get off of my other job all year. I MAY be able to put off the MSDT, but it's really easier to knock it all out at once.

Re the OWSI portion: every shop listed asked that I attend the first portion and offered to waive either all or part of the fee for that "section". I know how to teach, but do I know how to PADI teach? Do I need those first 3 days?

 

[ElGaucho]

Danseur: You might want to reconsider the MSDT portion. If you are limited on budget and time, I can honestly tell you it doesn´t really add much. I don´t know what you would expect from an MSDT program, but I believe few people benefit from it but the CDCs/CDs.

 

[Karibelle]

Danseur: You might want to reconsider the MSDT portion. If you are limited on budget and time, I can honestly tell you it doesn´t really add much. I don´t know what you would expect from an MSDT program, but I believe few people benefit from it but the CDCs/CDs.

wrt to the MSDT prep portion, I'd say that depends on how much diving experience one has. If you do the training with a CD then you can become a specialty instructor immediately... if you do not, you can self-certify if you have an appropriate amount of diving experience in that particular area. So for me, it did add a lot to my experience. Being able to actually teach specialty courses right out of the gate helped me a lot. (of course, that assumes that one is not apt to self-certify until they actually HAVE the experience... if that is not a barrier to one's peace of mind, then one could presumably skip the MSDT prep and just self-certify the heck out of specialty courses)

I don't know the others, but I do know Anders and from the sounds of it, his program is similar in structure to the IDC/IE/MSDT prep course I did at Utila Dive Center. January is a great time in Mexico, and as for enough cave diving, well that will sort of be up to you. There's lot of it well within reach! And depending on where you stay and how you eat, food and lodging in PDC for a couple of weeks can be had very reasonably.

Good luck with your decision!

kari

 

[oly5050user]

Thanks guys for the replies; all very helpful!

I'll be working a combination of independently and for a small shop with no CD nor Staff Instructor. Locally, IDC near NYC in January doesn't exist, and January is the ONLY time I can get off of my other job all year. I MAY be able to put off the MSDT, but it's really easier to knock it all out at once.

Re the OWSI portion: every shop listed asked that I attend the first portion and offered to waive either all or part of the fee for that "section". I know how to teach, but do I know how to PADI teach? Do I need those first 3 days?

Yes you need those 3 days. Presentations are graded very precisely and you can easily miss points that can be pass or fail.You need to know what the examiner is expecting to hear and when he/she expects to hear it.
as to an IDC in NYC, I may be able to set you up with a local course director to do that in January . PM me here on SB..Location can be here in Westchester NY.

 

[HIGHwing]

Yes you need those 3 days. Presentations are graded very precisely and you can easily miss points that can be pass or fail.You need to know what the examiner is expecting to hear and when he/she expects to hear it.
as to an IDC in NYC, I may be able to set you up with a local course director to do that in January . PM me here on SB..Location can be here in Westchester NY.

As a recently cert'd Staff Instructor with admittedly limited exposures to actual IDCs <-- Disclaimer, okay?

My thoughts echo oly5050user. As you're already a crossover Instructor, the PADI IDC is about performing to a set of very particular requirements. PADI has a method they want information delivered. Most Instructor Candidates I see come through the IDC refer to the delivery method as a bit of "gamesmanship". Regardless of your impression, you need to know the way, method, or "game" well enough to be a qualified player at the big show. Here's what's really important, you'll be evaluated as an instructor predominantly by the *methods* you use to deliver the information. If it becomes a game to you, then get a good score, right?

The in-water work is self-explanatory. Know the standards, perfom to the standards. Knowing the standards will help you when someone trys to violate the stanards during the exam. Often it's common sense stuff, but if PADI is aware of a real-world systemic training problem - it will be presented in the Instructor Exam.

Good luck with your choices.

One final thought, don't scare the examiner!

 

[SubMariner]

Thanks guys for the replies; all very helpful!

I'll be working a combination of independently and for a small shop with no CD nor Staff Instructor. Locally, IDC near NYC in January doesn't exist, and January is the ONLY time I can get off of my other job all year. I MAY be able to put off the MSDT, but it's really easier to knock it all out at once.

Re the OWSI portion: every shop listed asked that I attend the first portion and offered to waive either all or part of the fee for that "section". I know how to teach, but do I know how to PADI teach? Do I need those first 3 days?

To elaborate: the 1st part of the IDC is the Assistant Instructor (AI) portion; the 2nd part is the Open Water Scuba Instructor (OWSI). During a crossover you will be taught the relevant portions of the AI section so that you have full exposure to the PADI system of learning & teaching. Thus, you do not need to waste your time & money on a full IDC.

With all due respect to the shops you talked to, they are into IDCs to make money. I'm sure they would be more than happy to have you be there 7+ days to plug you into their full food & lodging plan. But that's not necessarily what's best for YOU.

MSDT is a useful course with the right Course Director, as not only will this reinforce the PADI learning system for you, but you will be able to teach Specialties immediately. And those certs will count towards the 25 certs you need to qualify as an MSDT. But if you are already a Specialty Instructor with another agency, refer back to my previous post.

Again, it all depends on what you want to achieve with your PADI Pro training.

Meanwhile, some background on me: I have been an IDC Staff Instructor since 1995. Although I've worked with other Course Directors, I am married to someone who has been a CD since 1991. We've done IDCs, MSDTs & Specialties all over North America plus a few in other locations.

Hope this helped,