Ice diving and drysuit buoyancy

[oldflounder]

Some say use your drysuit for buoyancy / bc for surface flotation; others say fill your drysuit just enough to get the squeeze off / use the bc for buoyancy. I've tried both ways. This day I was using air in the drysuit for buoyancy and warmth.

Recently I experienced an emergency extraction during an ice dive training class and came away with a few lessons that changed my thinking. I was at 20' depth, 5 minutes into the dive and 25' from the hole. My instabuddy fellow student had a full freeflow and disapperared into a cloud of bubbles. We were on separate tethers and had been told by the instructor in the classroom session that if an issue came up and one of the divers pulled 3x on the line we would both be pulled back.

When I saw that my instabuddy was having the issue I gave 3 tugs knowing the hole was close, preferring to deal with the issue on the surface and not get in the grasp of a possibly panicking diver. Having had several freeflows in ice water before I know that there is a good chance the tank valve is locked in a coating of ice. Also rescue training says that if there is a good chance the rescue is going to put you in danger also, and make you a second victim, maybe you better consider a Plan B. Anyway, we get pulled quicklly to the hole and we're both fine. They swap out regs and we're on our way again for some more time under the ice, but this time we stayed close to the hole.

My issue was with the "ride" back to the hole. As I was being pulled I ascended quickly from 20'. I raised my left arm to release air but it didn't come out fast enough and I ended up smacking into the ice.


I think from now on I will use my bc for buoyancy when in the shallows where the pressure change is the greatest. Most certainly when on a tether and not in control of my ascent.

 

[Hawkwood]

The "fun" part with ice diving is one might have more air in the drysuit that "normal" to provide the warmth. I know I am typically weighted more than usual because I wear more undergarments and want more air in the suit. It is a real balance.

At 25 feet from the hole, was a free-flow an emergency? I just finished assisting with a class last weekend. There were a number of free-flows, particularly on dive one when folks are most likely to be breathing hard, but everyone swam back to the hole to have them dealt with.

Yeah, you have to be careful when pulling in an "emergency". If the line is horizontal, i.e. up against the ice, you can pull the line like crazy. If you are pulling up from depth, you still have to be concerned with pulling at a safe ascent rate.

What "agency" was the training offered through?

Bill

 

[oldflounder]

was a free-flow an emergency? I just finished assisting with a class last weekend. There were a number of free-flows, particularly on dive one when folks are most likely to be breathing hard, but everyone swam back to the hole to have them dealt with.



Bill

Hi Bill - It certainly wasn't an emergency for me - I was just an observer. I've had several freeflows in my cold water diving experience over the past couple winters, but I wasn't about to enter a cloud of bubbles to investigate when the hole was so close. We were only instructed to use 2 signals - 2 for OK, 3 for get me out of here. I am not posting this to criticize any training courses, but maybe to point out that more training should be done in extraction, though this would open up a whole can of worms about liability issues. A lot of harm can be done in a quick extraction from depth even under supervised training. This is probably a skill that should be practiced and learned in a more advanced training and not the basic course just because of the liability issue. Shops are terrified of the potential for lawsuit already. They would like to give you the best training possible but people like me couldn't afford it, so we just get the basic training and then go out and practice after if we really want to pursue it.

The main point of this thread is to give an argument for bcd buoyancy control when drusuit diving in the shallows.

 

[TSandM]

I think the main lesson from this thread is not to go ice diving with people whose competence in the face of problems you don't trust.

If I had a freeflow in that circumstance, I'd want someone to donate a regulator (assuming I hadn't provided myself with my own redundancy, which I likely would have). Having my buddy give the retrieval signal because he didn't want to deal with me would not amuse me at all.

 

[Bopper]

I think the main lesson from this thread is not to go ice diving with people whose competence in the face of problems you don't trust.

If I had a freeflow in that circumstance, I'd want someone to donate a regulator (assuming I hadn't provided myself with my own redundancy, which I likely would have). Having my buddy give the retrieval signal because he didn't want to deal with me would not amuse me at all.

I'm with you on this, I'd like someone to do the same and I just can't imagine "bailing" on a buddy (even an insta-buddy). But I think what failed to happen here was an explicit understanding of buddy responsibilities. I think some people see themselves as solo divers who happen to be diving alongside someone else, and the only responsibility they have is if the buddy's "issue" does not represent any danger to themselves. What's unfortunate here is that the buddy who had the issue may have been under a different assumption. And so you have an assymetrical understanding with one buddy getting the raw end of the deal.

Regarding the rate of exhaust on the drysuit, I'm new to drysuit diving but I've always figured your best "emergency" exhaust option would be to pull on your neck seal. You'd get wet. Maybe very wet. But these things aren't bound to happen very often...hopefully. And I guess that's why drysuit diver hoods are made without "skirts" or whatever that extra material is called.

 

[j yaeger]

our protocol with free flows ice diving is to shut off that reg and switch to your alternate air source
wether pony or left post on doubles
go to the hole and thaw out the problem
buddy is always nearby to assist
i use both wing and drysuit for bouyancy,as i like a little more air in my suit when it's cold
have fun and enjoy the ice!!
yaeg

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Couple points about ice diving and air shares. Not always a first choice as two divers breathing hard on a reg under the ice is liable to freeze up the donors reg as well. So then you have two to manage. This is not like cave or wreck diving where you just hand off a reg without thinking about it. Unless that reg is on a redundant air supply. I will not dive under the ice without one after seeing a few things go less than ideal due to divers trying to share one reg. If I had to be paired up with an insta buddy of unknown skill and temperment I'd have done the same thing oldflounder did. That is the safest course of action as long as it is made clear to begin with that is the procedure. And under some conditions it may be the best one.

Next if diving with an insta buddy I would have a pony or stage. And if teaching an ice class there would be a safety diver fully suited and ready to go at each hole. And if there was the possibility of needing to do an actual air share I'd want to know my buddy would be able to do that calmly and without sucking hard on the reg to send us both into trouble.

Diving under the ice gave me a whole new appreciation of the need to be self sufficient, have a thorough plan, and people on the tethers that you can trust.

 

[j yaeger]

at least one of the buddy team HAS to have redundant air! home rules!!!
air shares at 32*f compounds a panic rising situation for sure!!!

 

[oldflounder]

Just to add a little more to this discussion which was meant to be about buoyancy issues and not a flame on solo divers or instabuddy responsibilities:

We both had pony bottles. My instabuddy has over 20 years cold water diving the coast of Maine. We have both dealt with freeflows and it is not a big issue when you have full tanks and you are 25' from the hole. Tether entanglement can turn into a big issue fast if you are pulled back up into a small hole together. Neither of us felt it was an emergency situation at any time but we lacked proper communication skills with the topside [a lesson to be learned here.] In a real life situation your fault finding is justified, but really, we were in a class situation just a few pulls away from the hole. I did not "bail' on my buddy. I "rescued" him without making 2 victims is the way I see it. I repeat, he had a pony bottle and is experienced using it.

Oh yes - I almost forgot - try yanking on your neck seal with bulky dry suit gloves on.

 

[TSandM]

Over the years, I've seen people suggest pulling seals open as an emergency vent, and I've always shaken my head. There is no way on earth I could get to my neck seal, under my hood, with my drygloves, before I'd be on the surface (or stuck to the ice).

It sure seems that ice diving ought to be viewed as more serious than it is -- it seems to me that a combination of dive conditions very conducive to freeflow AND an overhead environment should REQUIRE redundancy and significant training.