No... I suggest you get a buddy for that.
I wouldn't go skydiving with a bath towel.
- Thread starter Burke
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
danceswithoctopus
Guest
Thanks for the lesson, homeboy.
I hope we all agree on that.
tchil01
Guest
My apologies for spinning this discussion of topic but since I have you all here
OK, I understand the isolation manifold vs. the independent doubles. Now I understand you hook up a reg to each side one being your main reg and the other being your backup. Is the backup reg also your octo, or do you also have an octo attached? To complicate maters more, Ive seen a number of wreck divers with manifolded doubles, but also with a pony mounted. To me that would seem a bit of overkill, but when doing a penetration I would thing extra redundancy is a good thing.
Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion
More is not always better Ty...
In fact *only take what you need* is as important as *take all that you need.*
When diving a proper set of doubles the long hose second stage is on the right post first stage and the wing inflator hose crosses over behind the neck from that first stage to the left. The necklace second stage is on the left post first stage and crosses over behind the neck to the right while the SPG (and suit inflator hose if you are not using argon) go from the left post first stage down the left side.
All gas is available to either first stage through the cross over manifold. The valves on the tanks can be shut down independantly to isolate either first stage while still allowing the gas in that tank to be used by the other first stage.
The crossover isolation valve can be shut down to keep gas from going between tanks in the event that a tank o-ring or burst disk would blow... thus saving the gas in the unaffected tank.
Should the right first stage fail and need to be shut down... all the gas is available to the necklace second stage as well as the suit inflation and spg. Should the left first stage fail and need to be shut down... all the gas is available to the long hose second stage as well as the wing inflation but the SPG will no longer be functioning.
An extra pony strapped to the back is only an un-neccesary entanglement hazzard.
- Messages
- 3,464
- Reaction score
- 12
Originally posted by tchil01
My apologies for spinning this discussion of topic but since I have you all here
OK, I understand the isolation manifold vs. the independent doubles. Now I understand you hook up a reg to each side one being your main reg and the other being your backup. Is the backup reg also your octo, or do you also have an octo attached? To complicate maters more, Ive seen a number of wreck divers with manifolded doubles, but also with a pony mounted. To me that would seem a bit of overkill, but when doing a penetration I would thing extra redundancy is a good thing.
Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion
You don't have an "octo" per se. Your primary is on a 7 ft hose, your backup is tied around your neck. If your buddy runs OOA you give him your primary and go to your backup.
Also don't need a pony per se. In some cases you'll use a smaller stage bottle (slung on your left side) or 2 but they will contain deco gas (nitrox and/or O2). If you have a malfunction you'll deal with it by valve manipulation. If you run OOA your buddy will save you.....
You have an SPG, don't run OOA.
Tom
danceswithoctopus
Guest
Time for a new thread? I mean, this guy is asking about his Spare Air and we're getting all tekkie here.
WTF?
WTF?
I just realized that you might not be familiar with the necklace regulator...
Instead of an octopus on a longish 40" hose we use a secondary second stage on a short hose and bungeed so that it sits just below our chin (necklaced reg.) In an OOA we donate the regulator we are breathing and it is on a long hose (5'~7'). The long hose is routed down from the right post first stage... under a canister light or knife or pocket on the waist strap and then up across the chest from lower right to upper left where it loops behind the neck from left to right and then into the mouth...
In an OOA donation the donor dips his head while handing off the regulator with this right hand whilst placing the necklaced reg into his mouth either without a hand or with his left hand... we practice both.
The donor then takes the rest of the hose out from under the canister light, checks his pressure gauge & signals the next action (egress or direct ascent.) The donee in the mean time stows his own regulator and takes charge of the extra length of the donated hose.
btw... the long hose when properly stowed across the chest proves very streamlined and poses no drag.
Find pictures on www.halcyon.net
Instead of an octopus on a longish 40" hose we use a secondary second stage on a short hose and bungeed so that it sits just below our chin (necklaced reg.) In an OOA we donate the regulator we are breathing and it is on a long hose (5'~7'). The long hose is routed down from the right post first stage... under a canister light or knife or pocket on the waist strap and then up across the chest from lower right to upper left where it loops behind the neck from left to right and then into the mouth...
In an OOA donation the donor dips his head while handing off the regulator with this right hand whilst placing the necklaced reg into his mouth either without a hand or with his left hand... we practice both.
The donor then takes the rest of the hose out from under the canister light, checks his pressure gauge & signals the next action (egress or direct ascent.) The donee in the mean time stows his own regulator and takes charge of the extra length of the donated hose.
btw... the long hose when properly stowed across the chest proves very streamlined and poses no drag.
Find pictures on www.halcyon.net
OP
Burke
Guest
OK, so it looks like the two main ideas being recommended are to get an octo, or get a pony bottle. I kind of like the idea of a pony bottle for the same reason the spare air seemed like a good idea (should that be a warning sign) having a completely independent air source just seems to be alot safer. However I have some questions about using a pony bottle that would have to be addressed before going that route. Why do some people seem to hate the idea? (Uncle Pug) What do you do with the second stage, do you still lend your long house in a buddy ooa situation or do you lend the pony second stage, do you put the second stage in a scumball clipped off somewhere or do you wear it around your neck (I like the idea of the long primary and the backup worn around the neck)? Does that pony bottle get in the way alot, I try to streamline my gear and a pony bottle seems like it would at the least catch alot of kelp.
On the side note, yes it was the same instructor that recommended the spare air that I did my open water dives with. At the time I just thought I must have done really good in the pool and classroom, so he had alot of confidence in my ability and thought it would be ok to go for scallops on my checkout dive, I also thought that was why I didn't have to do any skills under water (i.e. mask clearing, buddy breathing..) By the way we where both using spare airs, he uses one too. Ontario Diver, to answer your question, after searching for him for a couple of minutes, and then finding his bag of scallops sitting on the rocks (where he dropped it to go searching for me) I realized something wasnt right so I surfaced. I couldnt find the anchor line so I went up with out it and did a three minute stop at 15 feet floating free (we where at about 50 ft and I didnt want the bends, this was my first real open water dive remember) after I surfaced and didnt see the dive boat (that had my dad and brother in it, they didnt dive that day, just came along for the ride) I figured that the current had carried me while I was doing my safety stop. I felt pretty stupid about letting that happen. Then a charter fishing boat that happened to be in the area showed up to rescue me with, surprise, my instructor already on board. The fishing boat took us to our dive boat and everything ended fine. By the way we where about 2-3 miles of shore, I dont even know if I can swim that far, also it was somewhat rough surf, and mild fog. (If my instructor reads this forum he is going to know for sure who I am, oh well.)
I dont mind the tech discussion at all, if I ever have a lot of money and free time I am definitely looking into cave diving.
On the side note, yes it was the same instructor that recommended the spare air that I did my open water dives with. At the time I just thought I must have done really good in the pool and classroom, so he had alot of confidence in my ability and thought it would be ok to go for scallops on my checkout dive, I also thought that was why I didn't have to do any skills under water (i.e. mask clearing, buddy breathing..) By the way we where both using spare airs, he uses one too. Ontario Diver, to answer your question, after searching for him for a couple of minutes, and then finding his bag of scallops sitting on the rocks (where he dropped it to go searching for me) I realized something wasnt right so I surfaced. I couldnt find the anchor line so I went up with out it and did a three minute stop at 15 feet floating free (we where at about 50 ft and I didnt want the bends, this was my first real open water dive remember) after I surfaced and didnt see the dive boat (that had my dad and brother in it, they didnt dive that day, just came along for the ride) I figured that the current had carried me while I was doing my safety stop. I felt pretty stupid about letting that happen. Then a charter fishing boat that happened to be in the area showed up to rescue me with, surprise, my instructor already on board. The fishing boat took us to our dive boat and everything ended fine. By the way we where about 2-3 miles of shore, I dont even know if I can swim that far, also it was somewhat rough surf, and mild fog. (If my instructor reads this forum he is going to know for sure who I am, oh well.)
I dont mind the tech discussion at all, if I ever have a lot of money and free time I am definitely looking into cave diving.
Nah... were schoolin' him.. besides there are a lot of folks following this thread... and they're gettin' some schoolin' too...
There is a reason why we eschew the spare air...
And btw... this isn't about technical diving... and eventually we will get to why we don't use spare airs with singles for recreational dives either.
danceswithoctopus
Guest
IMO, I'd recommend getting the Octo first. As I said before, I went with an Air Source, but there are similar devices out there. Basically it's a regulator built into the low pressure inflator. In an OOA situation I donate my primary to by buddy and I go onto the Air Source. It's much more streamlined than an octo and less likely to become entangled.
Then, just to increase my entanglement risk, I carry a pony. I do this for the reason you went with the Spair Air: I don't want to have to rely on my buddy. My philosophy is that I want to be self-sufficient and let my buddy rely on me. Also, in an OOA emergencu, it's likely that my primary bottle is pretty low. With the pony as a backup we can make a safe ascent and should have plenty of time for a safety stop.
Just wanted to make sure this was the appropriate place. Seemed a bit advanced for a basic OW discussion, that's all. But thanks one again for the education, homie.
So, Pug, do you also eschew the use of a pony?
Then, just to increase my entanglement risk, I carry a pony. I do this for the reason you went with the Spair Air: I don't want to have to rely on my buddy. My philosophy is that I want to be self-sufficient and let my buddy rely on me. Also, in an OOA emergencu, it's likely that my primary bottle is pretty low. With the pony as a backup we can make a safe ascent and should have plenty of time for a safety stop.
Just wanted to make sure this was the appropriate place. Seemed a bit advanced for a basic OW discussion, that's all. But thanks one again for the education, homie.
So, Pug, do you also eschew the use of a pony?
Similar threads
