I would like to make my own hookah setup....is it this simple?
- Thread starter Nevek
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DiveGusto
Contributor
fstbttms you misread my post, me no chief. Most of the air hoses sold for use in auto shops, construction, etc is what I was referring about made in china.
fstbttms
Contributor
My mistake. Sorry buddy.
I have just purchased a hookah setup. This is what my scuba instructor used: 2 60ft hoses. A regulator setup using 2 secondaries. All equipment used/refurbished. Original goal was to use 2 such setups with 4 hoses total. Unfortunately even when used it was waaay out of my budget. To solve that idea I had him flip my octo over to the other side and also attach a left handed octo to my own setup. I am going to have my little sisters breathe off my tank and my parents off hookah setup. We do not plan to dive deeper than 25-30ft.
Exact setup is as follows:
Sherwood regulator with 2 second stage sherwood pieces. All equipment used and refurbished
2 60 ft clear with weave hookah hoses.
1 left handed octo added to my setup
4 additional masks
4 weight belts
4 fins (2 adult 2 kid)
I took it to blue grotto in florida to test it out between my dives.
Following things were tested:
Breathing at 15ft and breathing at 30ft
Breathing came naturally actually even slightly better than from my own setup.
I have also tested my own setup to which I added left handed octo. I tested it at 60ft, 40ft and 30ft. One octo was behaving fine and other one I had to apply a little more effort into. Upon return from the dive I dropped it off the dive shop for some tune up. My trainer adjusted flow in both octos.
Now I wont lie. There was an issue of entanglement. Not of me in the hookah equipment but hookah equipment itself. My trainer advised that I swam out and sank. Without a dive belt it was pretty much impossible so I had to physically grab on to stone and rocks in blue grotto and eventually ended up on the first submerged platform holding on while someone up above sorted out 2 hoses being entangled. They coiled against each other but flow was not restricted. Also I was trying to swim with 2 hoses at the same time so that is why they got tangled in the first place. I figure problem could be solved by having hoses hang from either side of the boat or using duct tape and hold hoses together first 30ft or so and have them separate on bottom.
I wont lie, even with used gear it was not cheap. My trainer asked me not to reveal prices locally but I did not pinky promise externally so... Total came out to $1200 for everything. That includes belts, masks, fins, equipment, additions to my gear etc.
Now I could have bought things on craigslist but honestly I can not entrust a DIY item that someone is selling enough to have my own family breathe off it.
Hose cost like a truck. Pissed me off actually. $2ft which in my opinion is a steep price to pay. That alone prevented me from getting 2 such setups. Now dont get me wrong I could have gone with 1 hose and a Y splitter and 2 15ft hoses but I did not want to put all my eggs into 1 basket if you know what I mean. In case 1 hose gets cut I still have a backup plan. It just adds a certain level of comfort. More importantly down the road if for whatever reason I will decide to split this setup... I will have 2 hoses (ie if my family wants to get certified down the road I could probably get some money by selling this thing to help cover future scuba expenses).
Everything is bulky. It takes a good long while to put everything away. Just yesterday when packing for the trip it took me 5 minutes to coil up both hoses. Until I get things squared away I am storing all of this in a large ice cooler.
Exact setup is as follows:
Sherwood regulator with 2 second stage sherwood pieces. All equipment used and refurbished
2 60 ft clear with weave hookah hoses.
1 left handed octo added to my setup
4 additional masks
4 weight belts
4 fins (2 adult 2 kid)
I took it to blue grotto in florida to test it out between my dives.
Following things were tested:
Breathing at 15ft and breathing at 30ft
Breathing came naturally actually even slightly better than from my own setup.
I have also tested my own setup to which I added left handed octo. I tested it at 60ft, 40ft and 30ft. One octo was behaving fine and other one I had to apply a little more effort into. Upon return from the dive I dropped it off the dive shop for some tune up. My trainer adjusted flow in both octos.
Now I wont lie. There was an issue of entanglement. Not of me in the hookah equipment but hookah equipment itself. My trainer advised that I swam out and sank. Without a dive belt it was pretty much impossible so I had to physically grab on to stone and rocks in blue grotto and eventually ended up on the first submerged platform holding on while someone up above sorted out 2 hoses being entangled. They coiled against each other but flow was not restricted. Also I was trying to swim with 2 hoses at the same time so that is why they got tangled in the first place. I figure problem could be solved by having hoses hang from either side of the boat or using duct tape and hold hoses together first 30ft or so and have them separate on bottom.
I wont lie, even with used gear it was not cheap. My trainer asked me not to reveal prices locally but I did not pinky promise externally so... Total came out to $1200 for everything. That includes belts, masks, fins, equipment, additions to my gear etc.
Now I could have bought things on craigslist but honestly I can not entrust a DIY item that someone is selling enough to have my own family breathe off it.
Hose cost like a truck. Pissed me off actually. $2ft which in my opinion is a steep price to pay. That alone prevented me from getting 2 such setups. Now dont get me wrong I could have gone with 1 hose and a Y splitter and 2 15ft hoses but I did not want to put all my eggs into 1 basket if you know what I mean. In case 1 hose gets cut I still have a backup plan. It just adds a certain level of comfort. More importantly down the road if for whatever reason I will decide to split this setup... I will have 2 hoses (ie if my family wants to get certified down the road I could probably get some money by selling this thing to help cover future scuba expenses).
Everything is bulky. It takes a good long while to put everything away. Just yesterday when packing for the trip it took me 5 minutes to coil up both hoses. Until I get things squared away I am storing all of this in a large ice cooler.
I have had plenty of time to evaluate my purchase so let me reflect on it and hopefully provide some helpful insight to those who might be interested in this purchase.
The setup:
Refurbished Sherwood regulator with 2 refurbished sherwood second stage/octo mouthpieces.
2 60ft scuba hoses. Clear with reiforced weave
Multiple fittings to put it all together
refurbished pressure gauge that has seen better days.
Original idea:
Have tank on boat with 2 hoses hanging off side of boat and pressure gauge resting on water surface. Dives would be broken down to 15 minute intervals with regular air checks.
There was a huge issue with entanglement. It did not interfere with the dive since dive was shallow but entanglement between 2 hoses was a major headache trying to stretch them out and swim off. Issue was partly resolved by using 4 zip ties strategically placed first 30 ft of hose. At times when we did shore entried we used a rubber dinghy and upon surfacing/surface interval on the beach hoses would tangle up again. Unfortunately because of water conditions boat kept bobbing on the surface and kept pulling on hoses which in term pulled on divers which in term caused 1 to inhale some sea water on 2 occasions. When threaded through weight belt it would just constantly pull diver wherever surface current went. Even in shallow waters where my folks could stand up it was an issue.
To save on coast we used sand/shale to weigh them down. Honestly put there is no better alternative than soft weights for that kind of thing. For next dive we will be using soft weights since they are compact and actually fit in pockets of weight belts. Unfortunately hookah type belts are mad expensive. There is no way that a belt should cost $150. Back harness from Brownie's and Airline hookah systems also costs a ton so for next time I am going to have them wear 4/5 pocket quick release weight belts with soft weights AND have a local seamstress put together 2 kid and 2 adult harness thingies that will perform following task: provide an anchor point for hoses (I figure there was a good reason why Airline/Brownies/Snuba international use them) so hoses do not slip.
Also it was determined that 2 60ft hoses were completely useless for type of diving we wanted to do. There is no way I will have my folks dive deeper than say 30ft so having 60ft of hose simply resulted in 30ft of hose just floating on the surface. For next time around I am going to split 2 60ft hoses as follows: each hose will be cut at 30ft. Followed by a Y splitter (again this would explain why hookah systems are advertised with Y splitters) followed by 2 15 ft hoses. I will have to see pressure tables if I can expand current setup to a 2 regulator system or be fine with what I have now. For shallow(er) diving I do not see a reason why this would be an issue.
1 tank of air at 15ft have lasted 2 adults 1 whole hour. I was absolutely amazed. I figure it would last them 15/20 mins tops since it was their first time. Instead from 8 rented tanks over course of vacation their bottom time was 20mins during training 30 min during 15ft dive and 2 1 hour dives afterwards at 15ft. I used other tanks for scuba with 2 kids breathing off my setup and had it last for 1 hour also with 3 of us breathing at the same time.
Tank floatation issues:
When on boat tank floatation was an issue even when out of water. At 3-4ft seas boat was rocking and pulled quite a bit on the hose. In rubber dinghy which was not anchored to buoy like a boat... it just kept pulling and tugging and while it was a good thing to hold on to... I do not think it was ideal. It also collected 10 gallons worth of water per hour during shore dives and waves crashing on it. I figure for next time I would prefer a closed vessel like a 2 hulled kayak thingie. Unfortunately kayaks are way too big and alternatives are way too expensive so I will have to improvise on that one. Unfortunatly 2 boat design will also introduce additional issues of entanglement between hoses so it might be a good idea to build a traller-like thing that will space out hoses far enough to prevent issues.
I figure the best way to make this setup perfect is to keep getting feedback from people that use it.
Ideal thing would be as follows:
Virtually unsinkable tank holding boat device capable of ancoring itself on demand if necessary (ie has 10lbs of weight anchor), that also has a lift bag thing (ie retired safety sausage) capable of temporarily making anchor buoyant with a quickrelease valve to sink weight again. Boat device should also have 2 arms that stretch out hoses far enough to prevent entanglement on surface. Does not have to be far but it has to be far enough. Boat should also have handles to pull it back on the beach. This trip we found it rather tricky to pull dinghy and hose through sand even with 3 adults doing it. Another "nice to have" feature would be some sort of retractable hose device reel thing that would allow for quick deployment and allow hose to collapse neatly enough so you do not have a mess to deal with on the beach. At the very least this boat should have 2 pegs so you can wind the hose between them for storage.
I think its important to point out that all of this stuff takes up quite a bit of space. Between fins, masks, belts, weights, hoses, boat etc this occupies a compact car trunk worth of space. In the back of my truck this was not an issue but before every trip we had to neatly pack everything, coil hoses etc etc which took like an hour to pack for the trip, deploy on site, hose it down after use, pack it again. Good thing I have a 7 gallon pump operated shower in my truck. That way I did not have to drag it somewhere to hose it off. Unfortunately shower was not powerful enough to get all the sand off the gear. Since we were vacationing we had to live with what we had. Most vacation places we went to on that trip had showers but not hoses that were readily available to public.
In the end setup in its current state has received a seal of approval with an asterisk and a footnote that improvement required. Overall grade is 5.5/10. This setup will receive 6/10 once I square away better alternative to rubber boat, 7/10 when I find better alternative to storing and deploying hoses and 8/10 when I make it support 4 divers. In case you are wondering why this setup can only receive 8/10... think of it this way. What Brownie's and Airline have figured out through trial and error and sell as a complete package where everything works out of the box and is comfortable... I am trying to replicate that for 1/3 of the cost on a limited budget. Sacrifices have to be made on comfort levels but obviously not in the safety department.
The setup:
Refurbished Sherwood regulator with 2 refurbished sherwood second stage/octo mouthpieces.
2 60ft scuba hoses. Clear with reiforced weave
Multiple fittings to put it all together
refurbished pressure gauge that has seen better days.
Original idea:
Have tank on boat with 2 hoses hanging off side of boat and pressure gauge resting on water surface. Dives would be broken down to 15 minute intervals with regular air checks.
There was a huge issue with entanglement. It did not interfere with the dive since dive was shallow but entanglement between 2 hoses was a major headache trying to stretch them out and swim off. Issue was partly resolved by using 4 zip ties strategically placed first 30 ft of hose. At times when we did shore entried we used a rubber dinghy and upon surfacing/surface interval on the beach hoses would tangle up again. Unfortunately because of water conditions boat kept bobbing on the surface and kept pulling on hoses which in term pulled on divers which in term caused 1 to inhale some sea water on 2 occasions. When threaded through weight belt it would just constantly pull diver wherever surface current went. Even in shallow waters where my folks could stand up it was an issue.
To save on coast we used sand/shale to weigh them down. Honestly put there is no better alternative than soft weights for that kind of thing. For next dive we will be using soft weights since they are compact and actually fit in pockets of weight belts. Unfortunately hookah type belts are mad expensive. There is no way that a belt should cost $150. Back harness from Brownie's and Airline hookah systems also costs a ton so for next time I am going to have them wear 4/5 pocket quick release weight belts with soft weights AND have a local seamstress put together 2 kid and 2 adult harness thingies that will perform following task: provide an anchor point for hoses (I figure there was a good reason why Airline/Brownies/Snuba international use them) so hoses do not slip.
Also it was determined that 2 60ft hoses were completely useless for type of diving we wanted to do. There is no way I will have my folks dive deeper than say 30ft so having 60ft of hose simply resulted in 30ft of hose just floating on the surface. For next time around I am going to split 2 60ft hoses as follows: each hose will be cut at 30ft. Followed by a Y splitter (again this would explain why hookah systems are advertised with Y splitters) followed by 2 15 ft hoses. I will have to see pressure tables if I can expand current setup to a 2 regulator system or be fine with what I have now. For shallow(er) diving I do not see a reason why this would be an issue.
1 tank of air at 15ft have lasted 2 adults 1 whole hour. I was absolutely amazed. I figure it would last them 15/20 mins tops since it was their first time. Instead from 8 rented tanks over course of vacation their bottom time was 20mins during training 30 min during 15ft dive and 2 1 hour dives afterwards at 15ft. I used other tanks for scuba with 2 kids breathing off my setup and had it last for 1 hour also with 3 of us breathing at the same time.
Tank floatation issues:
When on boat tank floatation was an issue even when out of water. At 3-4ft seas boat was rocking and pulled quite a bit on the hose. In rubber dinghy which was not anchored to buoy like a boat... it just kept pulling and tugging and while it was a good thing to hold on to... I do not think it was ideal. It also collected 10 gallons worth of water per hour during shore dives and waves crashing on it. I figure for next time I would prefer a closed vessel like a 2 hulled kayak thingie. Unfortunately kayaks are way too big and alternatives are way too expensive so I will have to improvise on that one. Unfortunatly 2 boat design will also introduce additional issues of entanglement between hoses so it might be a good idea to build a traller-like thing that will space out hoses far enough to prevent issues.
I figure the best way to make this setup perfect is to keep getting feedback from people that use it.
Ideal thing would be as follows:
Virtually unsinkable tank holding boat device capable of ancoring itself on demand if necessary (ie has 10lbs of weight anchor), that also has a lift bag thing (ie retired safety sausage) capable of temporarily making anchor buoyant with a quickrelease valve to sink weight again. Boat device should also have 2 arms that stretch out hoses far enough to prevent entanglement on surface. Does not have to be far but it has to be far enough. Boat should also have handles to pull it back on the beach. This trip we found it rather tricky to pull dinghy and hose through sand even with 3 adults doing it. Another "nice to have" feature would be some sort of retractable hose device reel thing that would allow for quick deployment and allow hose to collapse neatly enough so you do not have a mess to deal with on the beach. At the very least this boat should have 2 pegs so you can wind the hose between them for storage.
I think its important to point out that all of this stuff takes up quite a bit of space. Between fins, masks, belts, weights, hoses, boat etc this occupies a compact car trunk worth of space. In the back of my truck this was not an issue but before every trip we had to neatly pack everything, coil hoses etc etc which took like an hour to pack for the trip, deploy on site, hose it down after use, pack it again. Good thing I have a 7 gallon pump operated shower in my truck. That way I did not have to drag it somewhere to hose it off. Unfortunately shower was not powerful enough to get all the sand off the gear. Since we were vacationing we had to live with what we had. Most vacation places we went to on that trip had showers but not hoses that were readily available to public.
In the end setup in its current state has received a seal of approval with an asterisk and a footnote that improvement required. Overall grade is 5.5/10. This setup will receive 6/10 once I square away better alternative to rubber boat, 7/10 when I find better alternative to storing and deploying hoses and 8/10 when I make it support 4 divers. In case you are wondering why this setup can only receive 8/10... think of it this way. What Brownie's and Airline have figured out through trial and error and sell as a complete package where everything works out of the box and is comfortable... I am trying to replicate that for 1/3 of the cost on a limited budget. Sacrifices have to be made on comfort levels but obviously not in the safety department.
fstbttms
Contributor
FYI- what you have described above is not really a "hookah" rig, which typically employs an air compressor of some sort (usually gas-powered or electric). Floating bottles on the surface with a long hose attached is commonly referred to as "Snuba."
You are absolutely right. That is one of the reasons why I listed AirLine and Brownie's 3rd lung in my post. Unfortunately both cost a lot and while lower end models are more affordable... they only serve limited amount of people. After poundering that very issue we have chosen to pick Snuba (I really dont think that Snuba is the right term here since Snuba is a registered trademark).
fstbttms
Contributor
terallan
Registered
regulator pressure
Coming into this discussion a bit late, but need a techy question answered. I've been using a keene hookah for as long as I can remember mainly changing anodes, gold prospecting, boat work. I've got plenty of 'approved' air hose which I have in 3 x 20ft sections so I can join as required.
Setting aside my hookah rig, I want to make up an additional system, tank on boat or float, airline, regs. Snuba as you would say.
I'm in the process of buying a tank with first stage and second stage regs, which I will be able to use my hose in between. Now, my question is, probably I already know this, but it's nice to get second opinions:
Should the first stage and second stage pressures be adjusted way down like my hookah sherwood reg, to work at 50PSI? Although the keene hose is designed for it's hookah, I don't think I'd like a lot of pressure out of a scuba first stage going into the airline. Would I be right in saying that I need to put the first and second stages into a dive shop to be adjusted 'down' to work on a few bar of pressure?
I'm used to the lower pressures in the keene system and not sure if it's just a case of extending the hose between regs as suggested somewhere.
Hope I'm explaining this ok ;-/
Some pics of my rig attached.
Coming into this discussion a bit late, but need a techy question answered. I've been using a keene hookah for as long as I can remember mainly changing anodes, gold prospecting, boat work. I've got plenty of 'approved' air hose which I have in 3 x 20ft sections so I can join as required.
Setting aside my hookah rig, I want to make up an additional system, tank on boat or float, airline, regs. Snuba as you would say.
I'm in the process of buying a tank with first stage and second stage regs, which I will be able to use my hose in between. Now, my question is, probably I already know this, but it's nice to get second opinions:
Should the first stage and second stage pressures be adjusted way down like my hookah sherwood reg, to work at 50PSI? Although the keene hose is designed for it's hookah, I don't think I'd like a lot of pressure out of a scuba first stage going into the airline. Would I be right in saying that I need to put the first and second stages into a dive shop to be adjusted 'down' to work on a few bar of pressure?
I'm used to the lower pressures in the keene system and not sure if it's just a case of extending the hose between regs as suggested somewhere.
Hope I'm explaining this ok ;-/
Some pics of my rig attached.
Rich Keller
Contributor
I would not reduce the intermediate pressure as long as you hose is rated to work at that pressure.
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