I was wrong...

[DaMaDo]

Yep, I'm going back to school full time to change careers and the Feb slot had me missing two of the same class in one week which is one too many for me.

I'm actually getting the first fundy class session in Jan done on the weekend prior so I don't miss Wednesday in school.

I'd love to go on the dives for the Feb fundy class too though. Maybe I make it to one of them.

 

[danvolker]

My buddy and I had a moment of navigational error in Bonaire on the second (outer) reef. 100' of water, and we're both pointing 180 degree opposite directions towards shore. So we did a free-ascent, complete with nice 10' stops starting at 50', and made it to the surface calmly. Without mid-water buoyancy skills it would have been an extremely nerve-wracking experience. It would have been even more relaxed had I, say, brought along an SMB and spool!

Not sure if that's the kind of example that you're looking for. The silty overhang sounds pretty awesome.

GSK3,
You know, I hear about the free ascent issue, but I have never really thought about how this issue would be received by recreational divers....Because I did practically all of my diving in the 80's and early 90's doing the guerilla dives with Frank Hammett, and this meant ALWAYS coming up way out in a mid water collum with no reference, you just don't see it as an issue after a while...when I first started diving with George and Bill, the ascent skills were essentially nothing new.....so I never really though about this as a bid deal with DIR...Maybe it is....

So, how does the recreational diving community see having to come up off a 120ft or deeper ledge, where you can't see the bottom or surface when you are half way up. Is this an area where the DIR ascent skills would make them much happier--on the occaisions when they find themself without visual reference ( and I am assuming this is the issue..if it is not, please go into this more). We could use a flight reference, like an "instrument pilot" rating, nice for people flying small planes so that when they get stuck in deep cloud cover, they don't lose up and down, flat or tilted, etc.

Any thoughts ?
Regards,
DanV

 

[TSandM]

Well, it was a BIG deal for me, Dan. All ascents from more than about 20 feet in Puget Sound are done with no reference, and I got vertigo very badly. I finally just learned that it didn't really matter if I was doing somersaults (or, as was more likely, if I thought I was but I wasn't) so long as I was doing them at 15 feet. Learning to shoot a bag -- and even more important, diving with a team that stayed together and provided mutual visual references -- gave me tremendous tools with which to solve that problem.

I watched a VERY good, experienced recreational diver get completely disoriented and yo-yo wildly on a night ascent in Cozumel -- a bag would have helped that ascent a LOT.

 

[danvolker]

Well, it was a BIG deal for me, Dan. All ascents from more than about 20 feet in Puget Sound are done with no reference, and I got vertigo very badly. I finally just learned that it didn't really matter if I was doing somersaults (or, as was more likely, if I thought I was but I wasn't) so long as I was doing them at 15 feet. Learning to shoot a bag -- and even more important, diving with a team that stayed together and provided mutual visual references -- gave me tremendous tools with which to solve that problem.

I watched a VERY good, experienced recreational diver get completely disoriented and yo-yo wildly on a night ascent in Cozumel -- a bag would have helped that ascent a LOT.

Lynne,
A technique I always used to use, once I got to the stop zone portion of my ascent, was to swim in a 50 foot or so cirlce, like a jet circling a runway. It keeps you horizontal and the forward movement helps provide wing like stability.....
When I talk to Errol about this, I will ask how he teaches this ascent skill area...
Clearly, it sounds like this is something we will definitely do an article and video on.

Thanks again!
DanV

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

GSK3,
You know, I hear about the free ascent issue, but I have never really thought about how this issue would be received by recreational divers....Because I did practically all of my diving in the 80's and early 90's doing the guerilla dives with Frank Hammett, and this meant ALWAYS coming up way out in a mid water collum with no reference, you just don't see it as an issue after a while...when I first started diving with George and Bill, the ascent skills were essentially nothing new.....so I never really though about this as a bid deal with DIR...Maybe it is....

So, how does the recreational diving community see having to come up off a 120ft or deeper ledge, where you can't see the bottom or surface when you are half way up. Is this an area where the DIR ascent skills would make them much happier--on the occaisions when they find themself without visual reference ( and I am assuming this is the issue..if it is not, please go into this more). We could use a flight reference, like an "instrument pilot" rating, nice for people flying small planes so that when they get stuck in deep cloud cover, they don't lose up and down, flat or tilted, etc.

Any thoughts ?
Regards,
DanV

Depending on where you dive, the ability to make a mid-water ascent and deploy a DSMB can be considered critical skills. Where I dive ... because poor vis and currents are a way of life here ... they are essential in all but the easiest of shore dive sites. This is why I teach those skills in AOW ... in fact, one dive is done completely mid-water in a way that the dive team has no visual references at all. To emphasize the importance of team communication and awareness, I have the team do a planned course ... one diver gets the compass, the other gets the depth gauge/bottom timer. They cannot complete the exercise without working together.

This is not a DIR drill ... but it emphasizes teamwork, buoyancy control and situational awareness.

Not surprisingly, the majority of my students end up in a GUE or UTD class eventually ... I believe because exposing them to these skills early on helps them develop a better understanding of their value ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[wb416]

To get to my point; While I would like to see more Tech/Cave 1/2 reports, I realize now that this forum could also use more reports from people that take a DIRF course with their experiences and observations. These reports are the ones that get those that are wondering what DIR is all about curious about pursuing instruction in DIR. I know that people that pass the course have usually worked very hard to get that pass. So what I would like to see is that if you are one of those and really appreciate what you learned in your DIRF, then put your thoughts into electrons and post them here. Your report may be the one that convinces someone else to look into DIR.

Problem is.... after a while they all tend to read the same.... it's tough to find that one iota of difference between classes and reports that might help someone else. Rather, I think it tends to take someone you know or respect to take the class and then listen to what they experienced. But then again, you end up with the conundrum of a bazillion similar reports.

 

[wb416]

and then there's the huge dropout rate from SB itself.

i'd like to see people stick around and post their cave and tech reports, but those tend to wind up posted to blogs and facebook and wind up on the tech/cave-specific boards, or just quietly get done and the divers keep on diving... people find their community of dive buddies and that becomes more important to them than SB, particularly when it comes to DIR...

Less resistance (or grief) that way... and more focus on the fun of doing the dives with friends.

 

[wb416]

economy gets worse, classes get more expensive. so this is what we're left with

Pushed me more into bicycling and other activities close to home....

 

[boulderjohn]

OK, I am going to take a wild stab at one reason that you don't get more tech dive reports here, just some thoughts based on introspection. In other words, I have never posted one, and I tried to think about why not.

First of all, I never posted a fundies report, because I never took the class and don't know how it feels to do it. I received roughly the equivalent training through my tech instruction with another agency and then crossed over to UTD. I had to do some stuff to fill in the gaps, but for all practical purposes I crossed over at the T1 level. I have thus never had that elated sense that I see in people who post about that experience.

Next, in general, I tend not to post any trip reports anywhere. I'm not sure why. I posted one on the Hawai'i O'Hana after a trip there a while ago, but that was at NetDoc's request for the Newsletter. I also posted a report on a tech trip that started with a failed attempt to dive the Oriskany and ended up doing caves instead. I posted that in the Rocky Mountain Oyster forum, not here, because I had a reason to post there. It is the same reason I post about a number of tech-related stuff there--I am trying to drum up local interest.

So now I think I'm getting to the point.

As elated and proud as I see people feel when they post their fundies experiences, I feel more the opposite. Before I started this training, I thought I was a pretty good diver. That sense died quickly. I am now a far, far better diver than I was back then, but I feel the opposite. I know I have a long way to go to where I need to be. I am Tech 2/Full cave, but I feel like something of a beginner. Ironically, I think I feel less sure of my diving skill now than I did when I really didn't have much skill.

And so, before I post about a recent 21/35 deco dive at Rock Lake, NM, looking at some selenite Gypsum crystals in the silt, with the highlight being spotting some near-microscopic amphipods flitting around in that silt, animals we had never known existed, I ask myself, which of these dive experts here would care? Who wants to know the details about what for many people is just another training dive from some beginning techster with a long way to go?

Finally, being a UTD diver in what appears to be a GUE-centric forum, I have even more doubts. I just learned from one of you in a recent thread that the only value in the UTD program is its marketing, so I guess I'm on only on the DIR JV team, and the only people who care what happens in the JV games are the player's parents.

 

[lamont]

I have thus never had that elated sense that I see in people who post about that experience.

I think your more 'deflated' feeling is more typical of people who cross over with a more experienced technical background. The divers who haven't had time to build up much ego usually lose it all around about the first day of fundamental and then they get all excited and gushy...

(they usually get deflated again later, so it all works out in the end)

And I know exactly what you mean about having what a lot of people would consider a ton of experience, but still not feeling like you know a damn thing.

Finally, being a UTD diver in what appears to be a GUE-centric forum, I have even more doubts. I just learned from one of you in a recent thread that the only value in the UTD program is its marketing, so I guess I'm on only on the DIR JV team, and the only people who care what happens in the JV games are the player's parents.

I don't think it really is. There's plenty of UTD posters here, I think they just wisely decided to not take the trollbait. And siblings are occasionally going to fight and test each other out.