I tasted the Kool Aide and it didnt agree with me

[WJL]

PADI?

Just a correction . . . Essentials is offered by Breakthru Diving in Monterey. It is not a PADI class and in fact, as far as I know, isn't an "agency" class at all. It is an entry-level class for Fundies-type skills, the only equipment requirements being a long hose setup and non-split fins.

Essentials is a NAUI class ... offered by a (very) limited number of NAUI instructors.

Regardless of what is offered by NAUI, or Breakthru Diving in Monterey, there is in fact a PADI class called Essentials. It was set up as one of the seemingly infinite number of PADI specialty classes, by a PADI instructor, with input from a GUE Fundies instructor. I only know of one shop that offers it, however.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Regardless of what is offered by NAUI, or Breakthru Diving in Monterey, there is in fact a PADI class called Essentials. It was set up as one of the seemingly infinite number of PADI specialty classes, by a PADI instructor, with input from a GUE Fundies instructor. I only know of one shop that offers it, however.

Now that is interesting ... would be neat if it got more circulation, but how many instructors would be qualified to teach it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cacia]

Sure, people can learn on their own ... but they must first have some idea of what it is they need to learn ...

point taken. But you all did it by observing and asking questions.

I realized I needed a better approach to deco by eavesdropping about deep stops and going out and doing it, thinking it through, re-thinking compartments, etc. DIR divers and others have helped me so much, I enjoy the forum, learn from the forum (nobody can stop that) Only I can be an obstacle to learning if I let certain types turn me off to the extent that I reject it all. Sure, they would love to run me off..but now they don't effect my dives much, do they? Who really cares if they mock single Al 80's? I bet there are certain things I am more astute about doing an Al 80 deepish dive than if I had doubles. Having a smaller margin of error has certain mental benefits. Being smaller and more agile does too. At some point you can't go back, even if you thought it was a good idea.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Ok I need to go back and watch the DIR 3 but I thought I remember GI3 saying that matching the right tank to the dive was very important and that you didn't necessarily need steel doubles.

 

[Peter Deveugle]

My current frustration is awareness and good decision-making underwater, and I don't think you can teach that, either. At least, I've asked for ideas in a lot of places (not necessarily GUE places) and I've gotten a lot of advice to go diving, but very little in the way of specific ideas. So I don't fault my instructor for not "teaching" this. He provides us with opportunities to practice it, and feedback on how well we accomplish it, and I think that's about what's possible. Maybe I'm wrong.

Hi TSM,

Situational awareness is funnily enough one of the parts I find easiest (and most beneficial) to absorp about the system. Maybe I have some weird personality disorder or I have done some wilderness training that teaches you exactly the same thing. I am probably telling you what you know already, but a lot of work has been done on this for military training and especially in aviation, so that is where you'd go looking for it (think also aboriginal or SAS survival skills if you're really interested).

The seminal work on SA and teaching it is:
1995. Jensen, Richard S. Pilot judgment and crew resource management. Avebury Aviation, Aldershot

Although a lot of this is obviously geared towards pilots, I found myself going :11doh:, why didn't I think of this in several places. If found it quite an eye-opener when I first read it (before I was even diving) and extremely useful while diving. If you'd like a slimmed down version that is focused more on diving, I'd recommend Peter Steinhoff's article on DIR-explorer.

Cheers,
P

 

[Cacia]

you didn't necessarily need steel doubles.

Yes, I realize that, but we differ on "need"---that's okay, I always consider their concerns very carefully, because quite often they have a point.

You need a single if you want to crawl through a tight spot...or I feel that I do.
I think assessing that for myself makes me better than just doing it because he says so.

some wilderness training that teaches you exactly the same thing.

L Gonzales is an aerobatic pilot and survivalist who pushes thinking outside the box and to be willing to break rules as a critical factor regarding who dies and why. (Deep Survival) I prefer to think of it as who stays in the World Trade Center and who decides it is not a good idea, who can be ushered into the Superdome and who bets on themsleves to get themselves out of there etc. I could not team think if I wanted to, I don't have the pathways. But I can still benefit from DIR because it attracts a lot of bright perfectionists who might be a bit rigid, but bring a lot to the table.

okay..I will mosey along.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Ok I need to go back and watch the DIR 3 but I thought I remember GI3 saying that matching the right tank to the dive was very important and that you didn't necessarily need steel doubles.

She mentioned deep and deco in the same paragraph. I'm guessing that is what someone had a problem with. Or perhaps other overhead environments.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

point taken. But you all did it by observing and asking questions.

I realized I needed a better approach to deco by eavesdropping about deep stops and going out and doing it, thinking it through, re-thinking compartments, etc. DIR divers and others have helped me so much, I enjoy the forum, learn from the forum (nobody can stop that) Only I can be an obstacle to learning if I let certain types turn me off to the extent that I reject it all. Sure, they would love to run me off..but now they don't effect my dives much, do they? Who really cares if they mock single Al 80's? I bet there are certain things I am more astute about doing an Al 80 deepish dive than if I had doubles. Having a smaller margin of error has certain mental benefits. Being smaller and more agile does too. At some point you can't go back, even if you thought it was a good idea.

Well, I can see where you're going with this ... but whatever you've learned from your DIR compadres, the way you're putting it into practice isn't even remotely DIR. It may be the way you choose to dive, but it's the antithesis of what DIR advocates as basic safe diving protocols.

I think that's what's off-putting to those who want to reserve this forum for DIR discussions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

Now that is interesting ... would be neat if it got more circulation, but how many instructors would be qualified to teach it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Maybe this guy?
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=200159

 

[rjack321]

I bet there are certain things I am more astute about doing an Al 80 deepish dive than if I had doubles. Having a smaller margin of error has certain mental benefits. Being smaller and more agile does too. At some point you can't go back, even if you thought it was a good idea.

Catherine, really now. Deco on a single 80 (I'm guessing air and solo too) has very few proponents. There isn't an agency out there promoting that as "safe diving by only having enough gas to think fast"

What benefits do you see abou bringing barely enough gas for the dive? Some poeple like to live on the edge - DIR divers are not those people.