I need advice from the skiers...

[OE2X]

I once saw a sticker on a chairlift. It read "Cotton Kills". For me it's all synthetics and layers. I don't stop until I'm ready to end the day. Inspector 2 is right about it not being a critical issue unless you are back country skiing.

Ron's advice is spot on as well.

I'm leaving to get in a few hours of skiing this morning on Mt Hood. Synthetic turtleneck, light fleece top, heavy fleece top, light weight fleece pants, heavy weight fleece pants,Gortex bibs and shell. Since I'll be tree skiing I'm wearing my helmet. The helmet is new this year after many, many years of skiing without one.

 

[caymaniac]

Hey all,
This coming Saturday will be a one-day introduction to skiing in Cadillac, Michigan at Caberfae Peaks. Then, early January, I'll be going on a three day weekend trip at Crystal Mountain, which I believe is near Traverse City, Michigan.

Depending on how things go on those two outings, there may be another ski trip or two before the season ends, with one possibly being to the East Coast area... and hopefully a bit of practice in between locally here in Michigan.

I've been to both Cabrefae and Crystal many times. I think you will really like Crystal and there are plenty of beginner slopes at Cabrefae too. Just make sure you take lessons, it'll be worth it.
I've been skiing for over 30 years. Once you learn the concept, a trip out west will show you the real meaning of skiing. Mich. is okay but the mountains out west is where it's at. I've been to Utah, Col. and Wyoming skiing and it's a blast. But, if I had to choose between diving and skiing, I'd take diving any day.

 

[RonFrank]

I've never skied in Mich., but I'd imagine that it's going to be cold and windy.

The traditional advice for outdoor clothing in general is layers. You want a layer next to the skin that will wick away moisture (SWEAT) but not absorb it and get soaked. That is why many suggest something other than cotton even if it generally has worked well for me outdoors. Here is an example of a recommended Polyester undergarment. I do own a few of this type of thing, but I still generally end up with a tee shirt underneith

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...ry_rn=4501407&vcat=REI_SSHP_MENS_CLOTHING_TOC

You next layer is for warmth. This is generally fleece, or maybe even a light wool sweater. In your case where it maybe colder than the dry conditions I ski in, you may choose an additional layer. However don't overdress. Cotton does not kill, sweat does, and you will be excercising. The warmth is generally necessary for the lift, not for the actual skiing. I'm often not overly warm on the lift, but once I'm moving, I'm good. Here is an example of a good warmth layer.

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...ry_rn=4501418&vcat=REI_SSHP_MENS_CLOTHING_TOC

Once you have your wicking layer, and your warmthly layer(s), then a shell is the next thing. I like them long, light, and goretex, but the key is a BREATHABLE waterproof wind proof fabric. Avoid non breathing shells at all costs, as they will make you sweat, and you will not dry out. The sweat can freeze, and that can lead to real issues. Goretex does not have to cost a fortune.

http://landsend.com/cd/fp/prod/0,,1...l?CM_MERCH=PAGE_63951&sid=0390108834914124180

A BIG mistake that a LOT of new skiers make is to use the layer theory when choosing socks. You do NOT want a huge thick sock for sking. Here High tech poly/wool blend fabrics are your friend. You want just one sock that is warm, but thin, and does not bunch up. Believe me, nothing ruins a day of skiing faster than sore feet. If your feet get cold, rather than trying to layer up on socks, stuff a hot hands warming under your foot IF you can make that happen, and remain comfortable. Unfortunately rental boots are not known for comfort.

Good Luck, and have fun!!

 

[ScubaFishee]

Oh my, ICE SKIING!!!

I may need to borrow OE2X's helmet! And note to self... need even MORE padding to protect my backside!!!

I think I've got a bit better handle now on this layering bit. I think I have the underlayer worked out. I do have some good performance fleece tops, so I guess this would be a good time to put them to work as a mid layer. And I have a waterproof, windproof ski jacket, so that will be my top shell.

Now, I'm going to have to head back to the store for different socks, because I sure did just what RonFrank said not to do. I think I must have bought the thickest pair of wool socks they had!

I do NOT want sore feet!

Oh, and hand warmers... I need to pick up some of those little hand warmer packets.

Looks like I'm just about all set to roll down... er, I mean "schuss" down the bunny hill. :new_olymp

 

[ScubaFishee]

RonFrank,

Giving me links to REI can be a very, very dangerous thing.

Where's my charge card!

 

[Wristshot]

ScubaFishee,

As an avid skier (and racer) I feel compelled to chime in.

I learned a LONG time ago that the most important investment in skiing (and believe me, there are many investments in skiing!) is in the proper clothing. If you are not comfortable, you will not enjoy it. Period. I had cheap clothes for years, and once I finally sprung for decent ski clothes, my enjoyment tripled.

The avoidance of cotton is a real good idea. Even if you don't work up a sweat on the slopes, sometimes you will during lunch etc. In a wetsuit, you want a layer of water to insulate. On the slopes, you don't.

The polypro bottom is a great start. Now buy a similar top. I have a Patagonia and a couple Black Diamond tops. They work great. Hot Chilis are also highly recommended by friends. Not sure how well the rash guard would work, but I would recommend a purpose built garment. It will probably cost you about $40 for a good top (although $20 is possible) but you will have something warm to wear for years.

If it is snowing, or if it is windy, then having a waterproof and windproof jacket is critical. Few things can be as miserable as a wind whipping through you on a chair lift. Waterproof ski pants are key also when you are sitting on a snowcovered chair lift.

But your question was about the rash guard. I recommend against it.

To the person that recommended hand warmers in your boot: Not a great suggestion. There are boot warmers made of the same materials. They are shaped and styled for fitting under your feet. They are thinner and some come with adhesives to keep them in place. Hand warmers would be too thick and cause a lot of discomfort.

Remember that a ski boot should be snug, but not tight. If you have to loosen your buckles everytime you get on a chairlift, then your boots don't fit right.

I am a big advocate of ski helmets (and boarding). When my friends recommended them to me ~5 years ago, I said "yeah, yeah, yeah". Then I got one, and I never looked back. They keep my head warmer and safer. The demolish my hair, but then so does a hat. If you keep skiing, please invest in a good helmet.

With helmets, the most important element is fit. If it is too loose, then the benefits are lessened. If it is too tight, then it is uncomfortable and you won't use it. Make sure that you get one that fits correctly. The only other advice about helmets is to avoid dark colors. When the sun comes out in the spring, a dark helmet is a lot warmer. In the cold of winter, it doesn't matter as much. (However my helmet is dark because fit is the most important feature.)

Make sure that your gloves are waterproof (or at least water resistant). Beginners tend to spend a bit more time in the snow, and if your gloves get wet, your hands will not be happy. (this can be even more true for beginning snowboarders) Beginning snowboarders should consider gloves with wrist guards built in.

Enjoy the Skiing. Are you really sure that you want to embark on another "expense intensive sport?"


Wristshot
Rapidly closing in on a thousand!

 

[RonFrank]

To the person that recommended hand warmers in your boot: Not a great suggestion. There are boot warmers made of the same materials. They are shaped and styled for fitting under your feet. They are thinner and some come with adhesives to keep them in place. Hand warmers would be too thick and cause a lot of discomfort.

I suggested hand warmers. Living in Colorado over a decade and a half, one might think that I don't log any time on skis.... but think again. I would not suggest it if it caused a LOT of discomfort. Hand warmers are fine IF they work for the individual. They have certainly worked fine for me on many a frosty day, and I don't really notice them other than the fact they keep my feet warm.

 

[Wristshot]

I stand by my comments. The foot warmers fit much better than hand warmers inside of boots. Foot warmers are probably half as thick, and cover a larger surface area. They also are shaped for the foot as opposed to the rectangular packs used for hand warmers.

Perhaps my use of the words "a lot of discomfort" was overstated. I can't imagine the thick hand warmers not causing "some discomfort" in ski boots. Of course I believe in ski boots that fit properly.

Not sure why you jumped to any conclusions about whether anyone might think that you don't log any time on skis. That was never mentioned nor alluded to.

I was responding to the suggestion, not attacking the person making the suggestion. I merely stated that it was not a great suggestion, and then tried to make a better suggestion.

Interesting that you say that "hand warmers are fine IF (emphasis placed by you) they work for the individual." That could be construed by some people to suggest that they might not work for some individuals. (Not to suggest that foot warmers would work for every single individual.)

Likewise, in your previous post you say "stuff a hot hands warming under your foot IF you can make that happen, and remain comfortable." Again that might be construed as supporting the notion that hand warmers might cause discomfort. (although you did then allude to rental boots).

Not withstanding your 15+ years in Colorado, I still believe that purpose built foot warmers would be a better choice to use as foot warmers.

Wristshot

 

[ScubaFishee]

Ron and Wristshot, thank you both.

I'll pick up the warmers after work tomorrow.

I bit the bullet and bought the proper wicking under garments, including an Under Armour Coldgear top similar to the one in Ron's link. It is quite a bit different from my rash guard. I think I will be pleased that I went ahead and made the purchase.

(And Ron, thanks for the links. They were very helpful!)

I also found some very nice soft shell ski pants that are oh-so-comfortable! They are wind proof, very water resistant, and insulated, and have suspenders, high rise waist, powder cuffs and lower zippers. And, the material has 4-way stretch! I think I'm going to love that part because I may be in some strange contortions between falling and learning to stand back up on the skis.

Besides, I think these pants will work great for snow mobiling as well!

Technology is a wonderful thing. It's nice to know I can be warm and comfortable in THINNER materials, and not have to feel like little Randy in "The Christmas Story"...

Randy: [overdressed for winter] I can't put my arms down!

Mother: Well... put your arms down when you get to school.



​

 

[Wristshot]

Sounds like good choices. The suspenders and the high rise waist etc will be appreciated if it gets powdery or if you have a lot of "ups and downs'. I suspect that you will be very happy you sprung for a good top also.

Good luck, and I hope that you have a great time skiing!

We head up to Lake Tahoe tomorrow for some race training on Saturday and then some free skiing Sunday and Monday. (oh where oh where should we go?)


John Schultheis