I don't know what "hybrid" fins are!!!

[boulderjohn]

I've been making the rounds of the shops local to me- there are a fair number of them in the range that I drive for work. Your post doesn't surprise me a bit. There seems to be some underlying "hustle" in some of these operations that is easy to spot. When you couple it with people on the floor who just aren't very good salespeople at all, it is almost comical.

Some cases are not intentional.

An interesting experiment done decades ago indicates that personal bias can come through even when honestly trying to appear objective. Teachers were told to conduct an experiment in their classrooms in which they showed students pictures of random people and told the students to rate each on the degree they felt the individual was successful, using their own criteria for success. The teachers were given instructions to read, and they were cautioned to say nothing other than what was printed. They were also told informally ahead of time how they expected the students to score the people.

The real test was on those expectations. Each teacher was given different expectations for student responses. It turned out that each teacher's students tended to score the pictures according to what the teacher had been told to expect. Somehow the teachers' expectations had been communicated to the students.

A shop employee who uses specific equipment may do his or her best to give an objective explanation of the pros and cons of the equipment, but personal preferences will come through.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Some cases are not intentional.

An interesting experiment done decades ago indicates that personal bias can come through even when honestly trying to appear objective. Teachers were told to conduct an experiment in their classrooms in which they showed students pictures of random people and told the students to rate each on the degree they felt the individual was successful, using their own criteria for success. The teachers were given instructions to read, and they were cautioned to say nothing other than what was printed. They were also told informally ahead of time how they expected the students to score the people.

The real test was on those expectations. Each teacher was given different expectations for student responses. It turned out that each teachers students tended to score the pictures according to what the teacher had been told to expect. Somehow the teachers' expectations had been communicated to the students.

A shop employee who uses specific equipment may do his or her best to give an objective explanation of the pros and cons of the equipment, but personal preferences will come through.

The subliminal effects of body language has a profound effect on communication. It's not always about the spoken word.

 

[DogDiver]

My 2 cents worth: I’ve been diving ScubaPro JetFins since 1966. 36 years of Great Lakes wreck diving followed by 25 years of North Florida cave diving. NAUI instructor here and Jets have never let me down.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Stiffer and more paddle-like versus longer and floppier are like the gears on a drivetrain (car, bicycle, whatever). The stiffer and more paddle-like the fin, the more power you transfer with each kick but at the cost of higher exertion. Conversely, the longer and floppier, the more kicking you will do but each kick will feel easier. There are other consideration, such as it being difficult to impossible to do frog kicks and back kicks with a long, floppy fin. If all you ever do is a flutter kick, or if you don't feel you have the leg strength to propel yourself at a desired speed, then consider leaning toward the longer and floppier.

To the original topic, a whole spectrum of designs has been developed between the two extremes, and I suppose any of them could be called a "hybrid." All kinds of features have been developed in an attempt to reach an optimal tradeoff between the two extremes. I doubt any fin hits the exact right tradeoff for everyone. This is why many of us have half a dozen or more pairs of fins--we try some and are never quite satisfied we have found the fin that works really well for all our diving.

 

[tursiops]

My 2 cents worth: I’ve been diving ScubaPro JetFins since 1966. 36 years of Great Lakes wreck diving followed by 25 years of North Florida cave diving. NAUI instructor here and Jets have never let me down.

And my 2 cents: I really dislike Jetfins. they are too heavy (for travel and they drag my legs down) and they hurt my feet. I've had three different pairs over the years -- "Well, so many folks like them I guess I'll try them again." -- Fail. Obviously, some people really like them. But they are not for everyone.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Stiffer and more paddle-like versus longer and floppier are like the gears on a drivetrain (car, bicycle, whatever). The stiffer and more paddle-like the fin, the more power you transfer with each kick but at the cost of higher exertion. Conversely, the longer and floppier, the more kicking you will do but each kick will feel easier. There are other consideration, such as it being difficult to impossible to do frog kicks and back kicks with a long, floppy fin.

The mass and drag of your gear is also a factor. With a minimal set of recreational dive gear you're pretty slick and even the little floppy plastic fins can move you along well enough. But with cold water technical diving gear including double steel back tanks, stages, drysuit, camera, etc. it takes a lot more thrust to get moving. Kick hard against heavy resistance with a set of floppy plastic fins and they'll just kind of fold over without accomplishing much. The ScubaPro Jet Fins (and similar hard rubber fins) bend more gradually and can stand up to more force. So not all divers need Jet Fins, but in some situations they're the only practical option.

As another diver told me, "When you dive the big gear, you need the big Jet."

 

[tursiops]

The mass and drag of your gear is also a factor. With a minimal set of recreational dive gear you're pretty slick and even the little floppy plastic fins can move you along well enough. But with cold water technical diving gear including double steel back tanks, stages, drysuit, camera, etc. it takes a lot more thrust to get moving. Kick hard against heavy resistance with a set of floppy plastic fins and they'll just kind of fold over without accomplishing much. The ScubaPro Jet Fins (and similar hard rubber fins) bend more gradually and can stand up to more force. So not all divers need Jet Fins, but in some situations they're the only practical option.

As another diver told me, "When you dive the big gear, you need the big Jet."

I was with you until you concluded Jetfins were the only fin that would work.
I'll put my Dive Rite fins up against them in any situation, even if they are not made of "hard rubber."

 

[Nick_Radov]

I was with you until you concluded Jetfins were the only fin that would work.
I'll put my Dive Rite fins up against them in any situation, even if they are not made of "hard rubber."

Fair enough. I'll rephrase that to say that several years ago the Jet Fins (and various similar predecessors or clones) were the only fins that really worked with a heavy load of tech diving gear but there are probably other good options now. I haven't kept track of newer fin models.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have a live/hate relationship with Jet fins.
It's the fin I jeep goi g back to even though I desperately want something else to be better.
I have to use them for some situations and for other things they absolutely suck!
I'm actually really impressed with the Go Sport, even though it's a much lighter fin and won't work for what I doing now, but for basic use in basic gear they have proven to be about the best thing I have tried so far.
I stuffed rocks into the vents of my jets because I needed to get my feet down and I swear they worked better with the vents plugged shut.
I'm starting to believe that vents do nothing and might even be counter productive for hip flutter kicking. My main gripe with Jets is that they suck for regular fin kicking, it's like an effort to kick them and you still get nowhere. With a fin that hard to kick I would expect a payoff, but no they are just hard to kick. I wish there was a fin out there as heavy and durable but one that actually works well for flutter kicking. I think the Go Sport Gorilla might be the baby.
I don't like ankle weights either.

 

[boulderjohn]

Fair enough. I'll rephrase that to say that several years ago the Jet Fins (and various similar predecessors or clones) were the only fins that really worked with a heavy load of tech diving gear but there are probably other good options now. I haven't kept track of newer fin models.

Much more than several years ago.

I was a Jet user for years, but when I became the tech instructor for a shop that did not sell ScubaPro nearly a dozen years ago, I had to switch to a brand they sold, and that put me in Hollis F-1s. They were easily a match for the ScubaPro, including in weight. When I am not diving with a drysuit and heavy gear and especially while flying to diving locations, I much prefer lighter fins. I have the Mares Avanti Quatro Plus for that, but that is also based on what the shop I worked for sold. There are other fine options out there. I know several renowned tech divers who use the Dive Rites, one of which told me I should use them instead of the F-1s, and he sells the Hollis, too.