Hydro graffiti

[captain]

My guess is that he added the note because he knew darn well that a diver could/would simply stamp the '+' mark whether it passed that inspection or not. This way his hydro stamp is protected - there is no possibility that the '+' mark can be added.

So, how does an inspector protect against the '+' being added after hydro? I would seem to me that the entire '+' concept is flawed

Richard

It is not the inspectors responsibility to protect against what the owner "might" do.
If an incident happened and an investigation resulted the documentation from the inspector will show that the tank was not plus rated and responsibility would rest with the tanks owner.

Tanks without + rating are routinely filled to or above the + rating and it is extremely rare to have a catastrophic failure.

In my case I fill my own tanks and also have the hydro facility provide me with the test results. That and the knowledge of how the + is calculated gives me a pretty good indication of whether or not a tank can pass a + rating but I would not stamp the + myself.

 

[Leadking]

Under your theory the whole hydo concept is flawed. Why just stop at a + stamp?

p.s. Don't think it's not being done. Some individuals care nothing for life and limb.

My guess is that he added the note because he knew darn well that a diver could/would simply stamp the '+' mark whether it passed that inspection or not. This way his hydro stamp is protected - there is no possibility that the '+' mark can be added.

So, how does an inspector protect against the '+' being added after hydro? I would seem to me that the entire '+' concept is flawed

Richard

 

[Luis H]

My guess is that he added the note because he knew darn well that a diver could/would simply stamp the '+' mark whether it passed that inspection or not. This way his hydro stamp is protected - there is no possibility that the '+' mark can be added.

So, how does an inspector protect against the '+' being added after hydro? I would seem to me that the entire '+' concept is flawed

Richard

As Leadking implied (I think), backyard hydro have been done by many, including a number of established dive shops.

Now a day the hydro facilities have to carry a license and they are required to stamp their license number between the month and year stamp. It is very easy to confirm if a "+" stamp is legitimate or not. It only takes a quick phone call. It is very easier to identify the hydro facility and the DOT list is readily available on the internet.



I will try to post my REE calculation sheet later. I did in MathCAD and would have to print into a JPG file and post it as a picture. I don't think it was that complicated, but if I recall correctly, to get a more exact number I think I needed the original design wall thickness.

To calculate the REE number is more than I would expect from a hydro tech person, especially since it does require information that he would not have (I think it was jus the wall thickness, I will have to look at it again).

In any case for a steel 72 a conservative estimate for the REE number was about 55 cc to maybe 60 cc.



Couv
This whole thing is not really that complicated. I will try to copy and paste some previous explanation of both pass failing criteria's (the standard hydro and the "+") when I get a chance. The testing is the same, it is just the criteria is a bit different. More later.
This comes up often enough that it should be in the technical reference section at VDH and/or a sticky over here.

 

[rstofer]

Now a day the hydro facilities have to carry a license and they are required to stamp their license number between the month and year stamp. It is very easy to confirm if a "+" stamp is legitimate or not. It only takes a quick phone call. It is very easier to identify the hydro facility and the DOT list is readily available on the internet.

If the operator at a fill station saw the '+' symbol, why would they call? They have no way of knowing whether the stamping is correct and no reason to question it.

A better process would be to invert the logic. Some kind of positive mark to indicate the '+' is denied rather than the other way around (omitting the mark to indicate the tank didn't pass). But, inertia being what it is, this isn't going to change just because it's backwards.

Richard

 

[captain]

If the operator at a fill station saw the '+' symbol, why would they call? They have no way of knowing whether the stamping is correct and no reason to question it.

A better process would be to invert the logic. Some kind of positive mark to indicate the '+' is denied rather than the other way around (omitting the mark to indicate the tank didn't pass). But, inertia being what it is, this isn't going to change just because it's backwards.

Richard

But you can't deny something just because you don't have the knowledge or information to determine if it is deniable or not.

That would be fine if every hydro shop had the REE information and did the calculations to know a tank can not be + rated. But just because one tester can't do a + rating doesn't mean a different hydro tester can't in the future + rate the same tank.

 

[halocline]

But you can't deny something just because you don't have the knowledge or information to determine if it is deniable or not.

That would be fine if every hydro shop had the REE information and did the calculations to know a tank can not be + rated. But just because one tester can't do a + rating doesn't mean a different hydro tester can't in the future + rate the same tank.

This is exactly the problem. The marking implies that the tank failed the plus test, which is not what happened. How's that going to look to a strange dive shop, with very poor understanding of the whole issue?

The bizarre thing is that this is not an official DOT marking; the guy just took it on himself to add some commentary to the tank. It makes no sense, it's extra work and accomplishes nothing.

 

[oxyhacker]

Exactly. There is an element of vindictiveness that is quite unacountable. Did you put on your deodorant that day? Did you make one too many jokes about stamping your own plus? Wear an Al Quaeda tee shirt? I often make the mistake of assuming other people have a sense of humor, and sometimes get in trouble when they don't.

Oh, re all the people on this thread who are "shocked, shocked" at how mickey mouse the whole "+" thing is, well it may be, but its been around a long time and everyone is used to it, new UN tanks are coming along that will eventually obsolete the 3AA spec, so it really just doesn't matter. It's not as if anyone really thinks that putting the 10% overfill is going to blow a tank that doesn't have the plus, and for that matter most of the shops around here put the same 2500 psi-or-so fill in any 72, plussed or not. The DOT has started the process to get rid of it two or three times but always seems to lose interest or get distracted.

The bizarre thing is that this is not an official DOT marking; the guy just took it on himself to add some commentary to the tank. It makes no sense, it's extra work and accomplishes nothing.