How to achieve good and proper Trim while diving

[The Chairman]

and you want to have your feet lower than your chest.

I certainly disagree with this. You can modify the flutter kick easily to accommodate the Scuba Position. Moreover, your feet should point in the direction you wish to travel. Mine are planer with the bottom I am traversing. If not planer than you will ascend or descend depending on the direction of your thrust. This is why getting neutral is so problematic amongst divers. If your feet are kicking down, then you'll need more weight to stay even but you'll sink when you stop kicking. If your feet are pointing up, then you'll need less weight while under power and will start to rise when you stop. It's simple physics. Here's an article on the very subject: Master Neutral Buoyancy: The Importance of Horizontal Trim (Simple Vector Physics) - ScubaBoard

 

[Hoyden]

Most of the (few) dives I'm done, I'm going so slow to look at things ... not just below me but also beside and above me. It's not about traveling great distances in a short period of time. I hate playing chase the dive master.

So as a new diver, I keep hearing about trim (and don't have a problem getting in and holding this position when I'm moving) but want to know how much time during any dive a seasoned diver spends in this position.

Most of the (few) dives I'm done, I'm going so slow to look at things ... not just below me but also beside and above me. It's not about traveling great distances in a short period of time. I hate playing chase the dive master.

So as a new diver, I keep hearing about trim (and don't have a problem getting in and holding this position when I'm moving) but want to know how much time during any dive a seasoned diver spends in this position.

Pretty much all of it - unless there is a compelling reason to be in another position.

 

[npole]

I certainly disagree with this. You can modify the flutter kick easily to accommodate the Scuba Position. Moreover, your feet should point in the direction you wish to travel.

Having your feet below your chest (in a 30° up to 45°) is a common position used by videophotographers because you must move the camera (while look at the monitor). If you stay horizontal, and even worse with your feet tilted up, the arm muscles will pull, limiting your movement and get you tired due to the tension.
You can try it yourself (you don't need to be in the water), lower are the arms, more dynamics they are, while they get stiffer and stiffer more you move them up above the head.
Being neutral means that ideally you will not change your depth, but the position in the water totally depend of what you're doing: you often see photographers frog kicking in a 45° position like a sea horse because they have to follow the subject and they need the full mobility of their arms to do so. The best position would even be vertical! ...but you need a compromise since it would be hard to swim horizontally while being vertically in the water!

So, in my opinion, all this "you must be in this position" doesn't make much sense: you must be comfortable and use the best position according to your task.. if the best position is being upside down for some reason, great that position for THAT tank is perfectly acceptable. There's only one thing that people have to figure: how to correct weight, after you understand that all the other things (weight distribution, trim, whatever) will come natural.

 

[The Chairman]

What he said @KatieMac.

Pretty much all of it - unless there is a compelling reason to be in another position.

If you're not fighting your trim, then easing up or down is a matter of gently changing how you breathe. Breathing on somewhat fuller lungs will cause you to rise. Likewise, a bit emptier will cause you to descend. This becomes easy to master once you've established the Scuba Position, but trim must be first. If you're having to kick hard for speed, frankly you're probably doing it wrong and will miss sooooo much of what you're diving for: Reasons to take a propulsion/trim/buoyancy class...

Caveat: I ascend the last ten feet spinning while in a vertical position looking for boats heading my way. Other than that, my descent and ascent are fairly horizontal and I'll cop a downward angle only if I have to kick myself down quicker like on a hot drop onto a wreck.

 

[The Chairman]

Having your feet below your chest (in a 30° up to 45°) is a common position used by videophotographers because you must move the camera (while look at the monitor).

Again, I disagree. Most video cameras have adjustable view screens to enable the Scuba position. Those that don't have a large enough screen to accommodate that. Divers who choose to be upright either just don't care or can't be bothered with establishing good diving habits and these are the same guys who lie on the reef and silt out the place, often without ever realising they've done it. Die Polder JUST GOT CLOSED DOWN because of one such diver. Just because you don't 'do it that way' doesn't mean it can't be done or that it shouldn't be done. To whit, I see cave videographers use the Scuba position all the time, so it can be done and with great results. You can often get away with careless diving habits in OW, but not in silty areas. Here's a suggestion: get the craft of diving mastered before you add any additional activities. That includes photography, videography, spearing, collecting, wreck diving, cave diving and the list goes on. Think of the added benefits of being rock solid with your trim and buoyancy when it comes to videography.

• Improved Image Stability
• Improved Image Fluidity
  • Especially with transitions
• A smaller profile to avoid scaring fishies
• Longer shooting times which come with a reduced SAC
• Lower shot angles with fewer silt outs
• Leaving no trace
  • Less silting
  • Less damage to the reef
  • Happier co-divers
• I could go on and on
  • This list also applies to any additional activities!

Whatever is learned in a cave can be practised in open water with great results.
Not everything you can get away with in open water can be done in a cave or is optimal for an OW diver.

Here is my video from the Socorros off the Nautilus Belle Amie which were all taken in the Scuba Position.

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[KatieMac]

What he said @KatieMac. If you're not fighting your trim, then easing up or down is a matter of gently changing how you breathe. Breathing on somewhat fuller lungs will cause you to rise. Likewise, a bit emptier will cause you to descend. This becomes easy to master once you've established the Scuba Position, but trim must be first. If you're having to kick hard for speed, frankly you're probably doing it wrong and will miss sooooo much of what you're diving for: Reasons to take a propulsion/trim/buoyancy class...

Caveat: I ascend the last ten feet spinning while in a vertical position looking for boats heading my way. Other than that, my descent and ascent are fairly horizontal and I'll cop a downward angle only if I have to kick myself down quicker like on a hot drop onto a wreck.

I certainly move from one location to another or do swimthroughs in this position and I don't have a problem with controlling my buoyancy through breathing. But for now I'm down there primarily to look at/for things and most of the things I want to see are not in my field of view when I'm in the perfect trim position. For most of my dives, I'm on my side at about 30° happily going with the drift while I watch the wall because that's where the action is. I don't see many (even seasoned) divers in a perfect position on these kinds of dives.

Like I said, I probably need to dive a lot more places

 

[The Chairman]

For most of my dives, I'm on my side at about 30° happily going with the drift while I watch the wall because that's where the action is.

Me too, but I'm in horizontal trim while I'm there. I can cruise just barely above the bottom, looking for critters most will never see and I only kick with the upper fin. No silt and I can go as slow as molasses without ever feeling stressed. This is a skill I cover in my Trim, Buoyancy and Propulsion classes. Before anyone asks, you can scull in a very straight line with a single fin. You don't have to turn if you don't want to. It's not intuitive and it takes determination and effort to learn. If you want to do any of these kicks, you won't need to take a class: you'll simply figure it out. Hell, that's how I did it. I didn't have any mentors showing me how to dive a reef like that so if I can suss it out, then so can anyone who is so inclined! Man, that about "so's" it up.

We are creatures of habit, but there are ways around allowing them to control us. Let's face it: our awake hours on the hard are spent vertically, even while sitting. We're used to it and we allow that familiarity to cause us to get lazy. Getting horizontal and staying that way is against all those habits so we have to rethink and relearn how to attain and maintain this attitude. A few tricks, simply tilting your head 15% to one side will allow you to look almost straight ahead with the eye on top, even with a camera. Also, finding your buddy is a lot easier by dipping your head to look underneath your body, or through your fins, so to speak, rather than clumsily turning around. You still don't see them? Spin horizontally, and you'll probably see them just above you. Harder to do if you're fairly vertical, but oh the energy and air you'll save with those simple, simple tricks if you are in the Scuba position. Less energy used means less CO2 generated which in turn means that you'll get to breathe softer, thereby improving your SAC. It's my humble opinion that horizontal is where it's at. It delineates between the dedicated and skilled diver from all the rest. Sure, there are times to go vertical, but they are few and far between.

BTW, I've never ever seen anyone swim backwards unless they were horizontal and frog kicking. Talk about precise control!

 

[npole]

Most video cameras have adjustable view screens to enable the Scuba position.

No they doesn't. Most of camera housing doesn't have external monitors and the angle view is limited due to the LCD separation. Some (for pictures) camera have a external viewfinder, but it's even worse (position wide) to use.
However as I have explained already, it's not just a matter of looking into the LCD, it's a matter of mobility: being horizontally will limit your vertical movement to the up, to point a subject in front of you will raise your arms towards or over your head, and to gain further extension (in the subject moves shallower than you), you have to tilt your whole body, something you won't to do while filming or while you have to follow the subject.
A tilted position will give the opportunity to cover immediately a wider vertical upper area, while you can still pointing your camera down to the point of having it upside down (towards the legs).

This is not about how to swim faster or better, this how to use efficiently a position in the water for a given task. Being horizontally is NOT always the best position. You're also mixing a position of experienced photographers with the position of a OW diver that is plowing the floor for whatever reason.

 

[The Chairman]

You're also mixing a position of experienced photographers with the position of a OW diver that is plowing the floor for whatever reason.

Some of the worst damage I've seen inflicted on the reefs and in the caves have come from those so-called "experienced photographers" who decimate the reefs and floors in search of the perfect image. Hey, it's OK that we disagree. Dive and let Dive... just please don't use videography as an excuse for poor diving habits that negatively impact our environment. Yes, I still contend that vertical divers, whether they have a camera in their hand or not, are exhibiting poor Scuba technique. Too many Roto-tillers as @Uncle Pug would call them! But hey, you're free to dive any way you feel like.

Horizontally yours...

BTW @npole, did you like my video? Most do.

 

[npole]

Pete I think your crusade toward the non-horizontal divers and not experienced divers is affecting your judgement.

I gave you technical reason of why a horizontal position is not natural for a videophotographer, unless you think that doing superman with a 15Kg mass at your front head level is a thing. Yes it can be done, and I do it in caves and where the circumstances will force you to do so (being near to the bottom, or having another kind of obstacle, is one of them), but it doesn't mean that it is the best position, you get easily tired in your arms because of the reason I explained in the previous posts.

And yes I like your video, as I may live any other scuba diving videos... but I'm not sure how this would affect or change the above considerations.