How Shops Typically Manage Small Group Boat Dives

[yle]

You have to wonder how effective a DM can be helping one diver in a group of 6 he/she is with underwater. This ties in somewhat with the accidents that occur during Discover Scuba dives where uncertified divers can be at a 4:1 ratio to the instructor.

I'm going to argue that a DM guiding a group of 6 certified divers is nothing like an instructor with 4 students on a DSD dive. The difference is that if the DM shouldn't have to assist anyone: he should be guiding three pairs of divers, and each diver should rely on their buddy for assistance with minor problems.

The role of a guiding DM is frequently misunderstood. They're not there to re-write the rules that are taught in OW class. They're not there to take the place of a diver's buddy. They're not there to compensate for a diver's diminished skills. They're not there to relieve divers of their responsibility to make proper predive safety checks and plan their dive within their personal limits. They're not there to monitor the diver's depth, air and NDL for them.

The purpose of the DM guide is to ensure people don't touch stuff, and to greatly improve the chance that everyone will find their way back to the boat (which is important for the shop, if the boats are on a tight schedule.)

 

[yle]

So, I just figured this is how boat diving is around the world - you pay a bunch of money and then the crew takes you out, points at the water and then listens to music on board while divers do their thing.

I've never owned a boat, but I've been given the impression that operating a boat is expensive. So I always assumed that I pay a bunch of money for the operation of the boat itself... not for the personal attention of the crew (although that usually is thrown in for free.)

 

[Damselfish]

The purpose of the DM guide is to ensure people don't touch stuff, and to greatly improve the chance that everyone will find their way back to the boat (which is important for the shop, if the boats are on a tight schedule.)

Also in most places, as critter spotters. Guides who know the local sites should be good at finding the interesting stuff and will often know where things live. Also in guiding people through local conditions, such as wonky and changing currents. (In my experience, a lot of guides aren’t actually all that good about stopping people from touching stuff, preferring to avoid confrontation or possibly affecting a tip.)

 

[caydiver]

We are an 8 pack in Cayman although we hold up to 14. The first dive is a guided dive as it is a deep dive. When someone is low on air the whole group goes back toward the boat. The DM will ask everyone how their air is and will have you buddy up and give you more bottom time. They usually go up themselves at that time to join their colleague who is on board doing surface watch. That individual spends time tidying up for the second dive. I don’t really know any DMs who sit in the sun tanning as they are working in the sun all day. The two crew members help the rest of the group with their gear and set up for the shallow dive. Most ops here put a DM in the water in the second dive and the divers have the option of tagging along with the DM or sticking with their buddy. We sometimes get families with newly qualified kids who hire a second DM so their is a lead and a sweeper so the parents get the most out of the dive instead of worrying about the kids. After 26 years diving here with many ops before making it home I have never heard of anyone escorting a guest low on air back to the boat and leaving the group only to go back and await the next low on air individual. Would love to know who is offering that service

 

[Suppresst]

Well, I'm groping my way to understanding here, and you all are being a big help. I looked over every single dive operation's website on the Cayman's and most talked as though they put a DM in the water, and that was outside of my experience, even in the Florida Keys, which gets lots of newbie/tourist divers. I'm beginning to get the picture and I do appreciate the input, but don't let that stop any more who want to chip in and shed light on this topic.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm going to argue that a DM guiding a group of 6 certified divers is nothing like an instructor with 4 students on a DSD dive. The difference is that if the DM shouldn't have to assist anyone: he should be guiding three pairs of divers, and each diver should rely on their buddy for assistance with minor problems.

The role of a guiding DM is frequently misunderstood. They're not there to re-write the rules that are taught in OW class. They're not there to take the place of a diver's buddy. They're not there to compensate for a diver's diminished skills. They're not there to relieve divers of their responsibility to make proper predive safety checks and plan their dive within their personal limits. They're not there to monitor the diver's depth, air and NDL for them.

The purpose of the DM guide is to ensure people don't touch stuff, and to greatly improve the chance that everyone will find their way back to the boat (which is important for the shop, if the boats are on a tight schedule.)

Oh I agree word for word with all you say here. I only related the DM guide situation to DSD to point out that it is one person keeping track of many. The OP seemed to me to be concerned as to why DMs are at times in the water while in other places divers are left to their own devices--as he pointed out the misfortunes of some that he experienced.
From what I read, it does seem that some ops (particularly in the tropics) do put their DMs in the water to "baby sit", or as a safety measure for incompetent divers, or even in case of some fluke situation that may affect competent ones. Agree with you completely in that this should not ever be necessary.

From some of the horror stories I've read over the years on SB, it seems that some of the "vacation" divers in the tropics are not much more prepared than DSD students.

 

[Suppresst]

I would think there has never been an industry standard. My one trip to Panama the DM was the guide, always in the water.
In the SE U.S. sometimes the DM was in the water, either buddied with or keeping an eye on an inexperienced diver.
One time the DM was on his own spear fishing. Other times the DM stayed on board. Sometimes the DM would assist people a lot gearing up, other times only if asked. Sometimes you geared up with no assistance. I always appreciated help since each boat is different and I usually gear up at my car.
You have to wonder how effective a DM can be helping one diver in a group of 6 he/she is with underwater. This ties in somewhat with the accidents that occur during Discover Scuba dives where uncertified divers can be at a 4:1 ratio to the instructor.
If it's not a guided group dive like in the tropics, there is probably little reason for the DM to be in the water unless as mentioned, with a new diver. Buddy teams will have different dive plans, so who would you follow?
One thing I recall from the DM course was that sometimes the DM stays on the boat to assist divers returning and to spot those in trouble on the surface. The thought here may be that if the DM is uw with 6 divers and one that he wasn't looking at bolts (Viz may be poor), who assists the panicked diver at the surface (the Captain, I guess, if trained to do so and the water's not like 38F)?

Now, the above post, made by a what appears to be a professional divemaster raises for me, another question (again, I'm simply groping for understanding) -The above post, not dissimilar to some of the others, makes an uninitiated person wonder why most of threads on tipping seem to point to a $10 per tank tip "standard"? The posts on tipping contributed to my wondering, before I began this thread, if the industry had changed dramatically since the 1980's. It never occurred to me to tip back then, and I never once saw any other diver do it, even in the Florida Keys, and I WORKED for the dive company in the Keys. So, I need some help here, someone, please, shed light:

1.) When I go to a major dive tourist destination, like the Cayman Islands, is the reality of dive shop industry in places like that, for a fact, that most of the boat staff assisting the divers is going to be depending on tips for a living? These boat trips are not cheap. One has to wonder where the trip fee is going, if not distributed at all to the divemasters.

2.) If they are not depending on it for a living, and on particular dive I don't get much help, why does there seem to be so much unanimity of opinion on other threads about the need to tip?

3.) Am I to understand that when I dive in non-major tourist destinations, the divemasters may not be dependent on tips and tipping would be foolish, because I can tell you it would have been ridiculous to tip anyone on my first boat trip to San Clemente (it was a free-for-all of looking out for number #1?)

 

[TMHeimer]

Now, the above post, made by a what appears to be a professional divemaster raises for me, another question (again, I'm simply groping for understanding) -The above post, not dissimilar to some of the others, makes an uninitiated person wonder why most of threads on tipping seem to point to a $10 per tank tip "standard"? The posts on tipping contributed to my wondering, before I began this thread, if the industry had changed dramatically since the 1980's. It never occurred to me to tip back then, and I never once saw any other diver do it, even in the Florida Keys, and I WORKED for the dive company in the Keys. So, I need some help here, someone, please, shed light:

1.) When I go to a major dive tourist destination, like the Cayman Islands, is the reality of dive shop industry in places like that, for a fact, that most of the boat staff assisting the divers is going to be depending on tips for a living? These boat trips are not cheap. One has to wonder where the trip fee is going, if not distributed at all to the divemasters.

2.) If they are not depending on it for a living, and on particular dive I don't get much help, why does there seem to be so much unanimity of opinion on other threads about the need to tip?

3.) Am I to understand that when I dive in non-major tourist destinations, the divemasters may not be dependent on tips and tipping would be foolish, because I can tell you it would have been ridiculous to tip anyone on my first boat trip to San Clemente (it was a free-for-all of looking out for number #1?)

This is kind of a hot topic on the Board, particularly in the pro forums. The situation seems to be:
--too many instructors, so the pay sucks.
--too many divemasters, thus many of the boat jobs are without pay. Tips, yes--Free air, yes, and a chance to get out and dive without paying the $100 or so.
--too many DMs doing this and assisting on courses without pay because they love diving and want to share it with students and want to "give something back" (that's nice if you're LeBron James worth half a billion).
--some DMs (and instructors) do other jobs at a shop, like retail. I would not have assisted with courses if the owner didn't pay me at least minimum wage. But that's just me.
As to where the fees for charters go if not to the crew, I imagine to gas, the Captain and the shop/op owner. But I am not well-versed on this. Either way, running a dive shop/op apparently is difficult financially for many.
--Though I've never DMd a charter, I know they do a lot of other stuff such as preparing the boat, safety equipment, maybe some paperwork, cleaning the boat after the trip, washing stuff, securing the anchor at the dive site, giving a dive site briefing, making sure every diver is accounted for, etc. Some of this work is not seen by the customer. All this is another reason why I would never do this for just tips and a free boat ride & dive or two.
--to my knowledge most instructors and DMs in Canada and U.S. have full time normal day jobs.

 

[Neilwood]

My experience is fairly limited with regards to different areas but have experienced a couple of scenarios:
1) UK boats - tend not to have a DM and all divers enter the water as independent groups (of 2 or three) unless on a course. You are told the outline by the skipper and are expected to be responsible for your own gas, timing etc. You generally either return to the shot or shoot a DSMB to indicate your position when you start your safety stop.
2) Red sea - DM is provided as a guide and will be there to spot critters, stop interference with the reefs etc and show the route however some may assist with gas etc. You are still responsible for your dive and shooting a DSMB unless on a shot line. They are not babysitters although some people tend to treat them like they are (and the DM's probably go further in the search for bigger tips).

 

[covediver]

Your experience at San Clemente is fairly typical for the era. Unless there was a class on board, dive boats tended to dive the deeper more remote locations favored by experienced divers. It was a pretty much divemaster checks you in an out and will assist on the surface. Otherwise, you were on your own. It may still be that way for all I know. California boat diving has a reputation for not coddling divers.

I have been on many dive boats in Caymans, Fuji, Hawaii, Cozumel, etc in the last few years. Groups are usually escorted ranging in size from four to six people, sometimes more, sometimes less. Proficient divers are allowed to stray. The divemasters did a wonderful job of keeping us together. The situation described by your Cayman diveshop is similar to the experience I had down there three years ago.