How Rigorous Should Training Be?

[rjack321]

I am not going to name names because my point is generic. I am not talking about these individuals to provide a warning; I am talking about the concept that skill in an area does not necessarily equate with teaching ability.

Sure nobody is going to disagree that some of the "best" divers are crappy instructors and potentially even miserable to be around.

But...

This idea has been bugging me for a while regarding this thread as well. I fully agree.

Interestingly enough, when you look at most sports, few of the great coaches were themselves great players. They just have the ability to communicate concepts effectively to people in early stages of their playing careers.

Years ago when I was coaching a high school girls' basketball team I went to a clinic featuring two of the most successful coaches in history, Jody Conrad and Pat Head Summit. They demonstrated a number of concepts using a bunch of local players who had never met them before and who were in fact not even part of a regular team together. It was a revelation. Those two coaches each had a truly remarkable ability to communicate to those players and to us in the audience. In a lifetime of coaching I have never seen anything like it.

I doubt if either one of the coaches could do anything they were teaching at the level they were demanding of the players, but I also bet those players learned more in that one session than any other day in their playing lives.

There is no way I am going to take cave or technical diving instruction from some one who is LESS experienced than myself. Just like I would expect any university faculty I take courses with to be more accomplished in the subject than myself. The greatest teacher in the world following the best teaching and learning theory practices is junk if they have no first hand information to convey and merely reiterate secondary sources.

This is not little league where any old dad can convey the basics of baseball to their 8yos regardless of their own accomplishments in the sport or whether they ever played at all.

 

[rjack321]

Ummm, where in the hell did it say I did a lot of diving there. I did one dive in a river here and that was enough to know it sucked too. The area I went was North of Edmonds, don't remember the shop tho. It was two dives and the only two I will ever do there. I thought it sucked bad. I also knoww peeople that think everything outside of bonair sucks too.

Cool, don't bother coming back, its always like that.

 

[boulderjohn]

Sure nobody is going to disagree that some of the "best" divers are crappy instructors and potentially even miserable to be around.

Have you been reading the thread?

I never said less experienced than the student.

Every college and professional athlete is being coached by someone who is currently less skilled than they are. These coaches are being paid for their experience and their instructional skills. Do you think any of Tiger Woods' coaches could ever beat him in a round of golf?

 

[liuk3]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I've never seen a bunch of clearly intelligent people have so much trouble with reading comprehension and critical thinking.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ummm, where in the hell did it say I did a lot of diving there. I did one dive in a river here and that was enough to know it sucked too. The area I went was North of Edmonds, don't remember the shop tho. It was two dives and the only two I will ever do there. I thought it sucked bad. I also knoww peeople that think everything outside of bonair sucks too.

To each their own ... if you think someplace sucks, then don't dive there. But let's just be clear about it ...

On the diving where you are, I lived there for almost ten years. Why would I want to go dive there. It sucked when I was there, it hasnt changed.

So out of literally thousands of dive sites, you did two dives in one location, on one day ... and therefore you *know* that where I dive sucks.

That would be like someone claiming to know all about Florida cave diving after having dived only the Ballroom at Ginnie ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I've never seen a bunch of clearly intelligent people have so much trouble with reading comprehension and critical thinking.

... at first I was thinking it's great we got some activity in this forum ... now I'm thinking we probably would've been better off not to ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

Have you been reading the thread?

Of course not, I dig up "genius" quotes from 4 pages ago for fun.

 

[rjack321]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I've never seen a bunch of clearly [-]intelligent[/-]opinionated people have so much trouble with reading comprehension and critical thinking.

Fixed

 

[liuk3]

... at first I was thinking it's great we got some activity in this forum ... now I'm thinking we probably would've been better off not to ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Nah, it makes for fun reading. Without posts on forums, we'd have nothing fun to read...

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

... but no one ever suggested that experience doesn't count ...

This reads that way to me, bolds are mine.

Interestingly enough, when you look at most sports, few of the great coaches were themselves great players. They just have the ability to communicate concepts effectively to people in early stages of their playing careers.

Years ago when I was coaching a high school girls' basketball team I went to a clinic featuring two of the most successful coaches in history, Jody Conrad and Pat Head Summit. They demonstrated a number of concepts using a bunch of local players who had never met them before and who were in fact not even part of a regular team together. It was a revelation. Those two coaches each had a truly remarkable ability to communicate to those players and to us in the audience. In a lifetime of coaching I have never seen anything like it.

I doubt if either one of the coaches could do anything they were teaching at the level they were demanding of the players, but I also bet those players learned more in that one session than any other day in their playing lives.

Even worse, they're so totally unrelated in concepts of both purpose and teaching(cave diving and basketball) - I think its worth calling retarted once again. Its just a very bad analogy. What may work for basketball and several other sports, won't work for cave diving. Its a totally different environment where the instructor HAS to be hands on to see any deficiencies. Your not going to do that from the park bench at Ginnie, and your not going to do that if your too busy sucking at diving yourself to realize that your students suck.

only that it's not the best indicator of what makes a good instructor ... and it's certainly not the only indicator one should consider.

I really don't get why people are objecting to that concept ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm not objecting to that at all.

I object to any sliver of notion that an inexperienced cave diver would make a good instructor. I don't object at all that an incredibly experienced cave diver could suck donkey balls at instruction.

When on Earth did I say anything like this?

See the above, 'retarted' quote again. It has nothing to do with Alice.