How much that the LDS tells me can I believe?

[Saltwater Junky]

It's always bad business to have poor customer service. It's a shame when businesses treat their customers poorly. As this LDS will find out making quick buck at the expense of the customer will not earn them loyal/repeat customers. Definitely shop around. Before puchasing a wetsuit on-line, locate the westsuit at a LDS and try it on. Haggle with the shop and who knows you might get it locally for the same price as on-line. I'm fortunate my LDS will match any advertised price.you decide to puchase on-line. Good luck and dive safe.

 

[ReefHound]

This LDS is seeing you as nothing more than floating wallets to be picked clean. They already lied to you about certain online retailers not being authorized. Why would you ever trust them again?

 

[ReefHound]

Some on line retailers will work on your stuff but do you know them like you know the folks at your LDS? Plus you have to ship it out wait..wait..wait for them to ship it back and hope it doesn't get lost in the process. A customer dropped his computer off yesterday to have a battery replaced and viola, it's ready for him to pick up today. try that with an online retailer....

Most divers I see drop off their regs at the LDS counter and pick them back up there when they are done, and don't have any idea who worked on them. As for waiting, many LDS take weeks, how many countless stories have we seen here where the shop had their gear for weeks or months and still not ready? I ship my regs to Scubatoys and they are back in my hands in a week.

It's true that you cannot get same day or next day service online but a little planning can virtually eliminate the need for that. Let's face it, we are not talking about divers who are in the water every single weekend. Don't wait until two days before a big trip to drag the scuba gear out of the closet. Or better yet, with all the money saved online you can afford to have backups.

 

[redacted]

A customer dropped his computer off yesterday to have a battery replaced and viola, it's ready for him to pick up today. try that with an online retailer....

Replacing a battery is even simpler than a hair cut. Why was it not done while he waiter rather than requiring a return trip?

 

[Web Monkey]

What are your opinions? Should I trust the dive shop owner, who has been in the business for 20 years, been diving for 40, and has over 5000 dives to his credit? Or is it truly safe and more financially feasible to buy less "name brand" products, buy used, and buy things online?

Yes, no or "it depends." How's that for an answer?

The value of a thing isn't always the price you pay for it. It also includes how you're treated after the sale. While things like wet suits are generally low maintenance items, your regulator will need service every year (or two), depending on the model and brand and may need adjustment now and then.

If you value convenience and first-class service, and if your LDS provides these, then you need to figure that in to the cost of the items. For example, the shop I use will typically turn my gear around in a couple of days, (or hours if I need it). This is worth something to me because my time is valuable, and I have a low "annoyance" threshold. This means that when I bought my regs, I bought them locally and paid retail. Sure, I took a little beating on the price, but for the past 10 years, I've lost exactly zero dives because my equipment was broken or out for service.

The flip side of this is that there are plenty of places that will charge you every nickel they can get, and not give you any kind of special service in return, so the answer really is "it depends".

Another thought is that you don't have to buy everything there if you don't want to. $300 is a lot for a rubber suit. For another couple of hundred dollars, you could get a drysuit.

You certainly have the option to negotiate, although for some brands, not on price (the manufacturers have limits on what the dealers are allowed to do). For example, with the regs, you can tell them that in exchange for paying retail you want 3 day turn-around time on normal service (if that's something you would value).

You also don't have to buy everything in one place. You can buy what you think is an overall good deal and take your business elsewhere for the rest.

The "Don't trust your life to eBay" thing sounds like complete BS, but it actually isn't. It's entirely possible to get a great deal on a really nice used reg on eBay. It's also possible to buy one that someone had problems with and couldn't (or didn't) get fixed. You'll need to figure in the potential cost of a complete overhaul when buying used. This isn't to say "don't do it". I bought a really great SCUBAPro regulator on eBay for $50 that only needed another $75 in repairs. However I also bought an underwater light that burst into flames while recharging, so anything is possible.

Also the line about "not buying your computer twice" isn't complete BS either. A lot of people buy stuff, then discover it's not quite what they need and replace it soon after. On the other hand, you don't actually need a computer. I have one and I like it a lot, but it's not a necessity. A depth gauge, SPG, watch and the tables that came with your OW class work just fine, especially since as new diver, your chances of making a tank last long enough to even come close to the No Decompression Limit are pretty slim. You can buy a computer at any time, and they're only getting better and cheaper as time goes by.

The short answer is "Don't get pressured into anything"

If it were up to me, I'd buy the best regulator that I can afford and get serviced locally, at a local shop. If you buy a good one, you can give it to your kids in 50 years. My eBay reg is a SCUBAPro MK1, which as far as I know is the first model they made and it breathes as good or better than any of my new regs.

I'd defintely buy the mask locally, since fit and comfort is 90% of the criteria as well as the other 10% and you can't do that over the net. I'd probably buy the wetsuit online. The manufacturers post body measurements for their various suits, and they're usually pretty accurate.

Sorry for sort of going off on a tangent.

Terry

 

[carolrose]

I'm glad I'm getting community feedback - he's pushed us so hard to get our own equipment that I truly felt that was "normal" to buy all your own equipment early on.

The value in buying gear from your local shop is that you can get their advice, see and play with the gear you are buying to an extent, and you can always go back to the shop if you have any problems with the gear.

I don't see being beaten over the head to buy gear before you are ready as being beneficial, and I'd be equally put off by the experience. The sad part is, if he wasn't so freaking pushy, you'd probably be happy to be getting advice from someone with his experience, and you'd probably give his recommendations far more consideration.

BTW $600 for a 5MM wetsuit?? Holy crap!!! That is way beyond ridiculous. I don't think I paid that much for all 3 of my suits.

 

[H20Bubbles]

I have yet to have the experience of you either buy it here from us, or we won't service you. To me it seems pretty clear that this business has no real interest in doing business with you or understands how to treat you as a customer.

The sad fact of the dive industry today is that the LDS are failing to realize that this is a global economy where consumers can purchase the same product from nearly any dealer / any where. To make matters worse, you have manufacturers (like Aqualung) that punish the dealers with their policies on MAP and MSRP, and have pulled their line from LDS's who dare to treat their customers fairly (ask Phil at Divesports or look for the thread).

There are a lot of good companies who you can do business with - Scuba Toys, Dive Sports, Leisure Pro, Deep Sea Supply, Dive Right in Scuba. Give them a call and see what real customer service is. Then you can go and find it in an LDS near you. Ask your LDS what would happen if you purchased your gear from a store elsewhere... would they still service it?

I have bought nearly all my gear online - mainly for the same two reasons you mention (spouse diving, and ridiculous pricing from the LDS). We have found a couple of LDS near us that accept it for what it is and are still happy to have us as a customer for air, service, pool sessions, training, etc.

Shop around and see what you can find. You will be happy you did.

 

[oly5050user]

I usually recommend buying locally,as most people develop a relationship with a lds when it is a good one.
But from the prices you posted it does sound higher than normal.Cannot fairly say it is overcharging as you say a 3mm wet suit is $300. and a 5 mm is $600. without knowing what manufacturer and model of suit it is.But a good 3mm can usually cost from $100 to $215.
A good lds should get to know you and the type of diving YOU have an interest in,not the type that the salesman is interested in,and advise accordingly.If you plan on diving locally in a easy recreational mode during the summer or only in warm climates on vacations the prices you posted sound higher than what the type of gear you need should be.

 

[Thalassamania]

Here's my situation:

My husband and I are taking a beginning dive class with a local community college. The instructors are all from a LDS, and we have been going there for all our equipment needs. However, I feel that we are far overpaying for things we could easily get online for much cheaper or perhaps be looking at different brands. They pretty much strictly carry ScubaPro and Aqua Lung. We so far have purchased masks, fins, snorkels and boots (total for both of us: around $700!!) and a BC for me (Ladies ScubaPro Diva with Air II, total around $750). We cannot afford to purchase any more equipment at these prices and would really like to have our own stuff, but the LDS owner (who is the lead instructor of the class) is really pushing us to only buy from a store, and pushing us to buy certain products. He really tries to make you scared of buying anything online or used and any of the products he doesn't sell. This makes me very uncomfortable and makes me wonder, should I spending all this money in his store when I feel like he's pushing me into his certain products? When I had a legitimate question about a wetsuit (I'm a plus sized girl and an Aqua Lung Men's hyper-stretch did not fit me - too loose at the neck because of my chest size) and an answer I had found online, he waved it off as BS and pointed me to one of his high-priced suits - which also did not fit.

I'd really like to be able to purchase our own equipment without breaking the bank. If we go through his store, we're looking at $300 EACH for wetsuits (3mm full suit - $600 each for 5 mm), $1000 for computer (because they push that you should spend more now instead of re-buying later) and $1000 each for regs (Legend, I believe Aqua Lung?) - this is way beyond our reach, we've pretty much tapped ourselves out just buying my BC and our masks/fins/snorkels. Even if we go with the cheapest models he sells, we'll be looking at $500 for computers and $500 for regs, each.

Another couple in our class (who we are car-pooling with us to the checkout dives and want to do two extra dives after we get our certs) recently purchased a lot of their equipment online, and the instructor had some really not-nice things to say about that (would you trust something your life depended on that you bought from eBay, etc) and that just really rubbed me the wrong way. When I told him I saw the same wet suit he was selling for $300 on Scuba.com for $150, he talked a lot of smack about Scuba.com and the fact they aren't authorized dealers, etc, and that I'd be wasting my money going through them. This makes no sense, when Scuba.com lists all of their authorized products with links back to the manufacturer's website - and besides, I was looking at wetsuit! (Henderson, btw) Basically, I'm just very leery of taking everything he says at face value, obviously as a business owner he's going to fight for every customer he can get, especially in the day of net shopping, but he's gotten to the point where I'm getting uncomfortable discussing equipment with him because he pushes certain products so much.

What are your opinions? Should I trust the dive shop owner, who has been in the business for 20 years, been diving for 40, and has over 5000 dives to his credit? Or is it truly safe and more financially feasible to buy less "name brand" products, buy used, and buy things online?

I'll see his credentials and raise him by more than double. What you need to understand first off is that there is a marketing plan that some shops use that is based on "price controlled" lines. Typically these shops will push either ScubaPro or Aqualung, rarely both and will have other line either poorly represented (or more insidiously) fully represented but only there to "kill." That is to say they bad mouth anything except the price controlled lines. Run, do not walk, run and find an honest shop.

Find a shop that carries several non-price controlled lines like Oceanic, Mares, Sherwood, Tusa, etc. Then buy your gear at, or near, the top of the line ... you almost can't go wrong if you pay attention to fit and comfort. Buy your gear where you're most comfortable, if price is a big deal e-bay can work for you, but it has it's risks. The established on-line retailers pose no risk and have great service. If you require extensive individualized service and advise, then you need an LDS. But the second that someone starts that crap about, "would you trust your life to something you bought one e-Bay?" I recommend you leave. After all, I've bought dive gear on e-Bay, I've bought cars on e-Bay and I'm still here to tell the tale.

 

[djanni]

We're in Birmingham, AL and currently we have only 3 LDS's in the metroplex even though the population here is over 1 mil. Two years ago there were 4. That last one was the closest to us but unfortunately, they went out of business. We bought Atomic regs from them and our computers. Since going out of biz, none of the other shops in the area have picked up the Atomic line so for service I have to send them off. I would rather have my regs serviced by someone I know but none of the other shops service them either.

Last time, I sent them to Scubatoys, Dallas, whose service is almost impeccable and their prices are great too. Thing is, it's a hassle having to box up the regs and take them to a carrier.

I was not happy with the first computer I bought and the LDS exchanged it on site instantly. No hassle. Later, I had another computer issue and they dealt with the manufacturer for me and handled the exchange. Not much hassle.

Based on the pricing I have seen at the smaller LDS's, or those that don't sell on-line themselves, their prices can be 15% to 20% higher and you can get the same warrantied product somewhere like DiveSports or Scubatoys. An additional savings comes from not having to pay sales tax. Scubatoys is out of state and so they don't have to charge me tax. If the amount of is high enough it offsets any shipping cost.

Bottom line, I would pay more for items like regs and computers and would buy locally because; 1. I want the LDS stay in buisness and 2. I like to support the businesses in my community so the closer they are the better.

To your question: How much can you believe? About all I could say is I've found LDS's to be reasonably reliable but like anything you buy the more you know the more informed and intelligent decision can be made.