How much more down time??

[RJP]

How much more down time could I expect to get switch from an AL 80 to HP Steel 100 or HP Steel 100 doubles??

How much gas you need is a classic "supply vs demand" problem. And as such, the first thing you should look at is decreasing DEMAND before worrying about increasing SUPPLY. Here's a post I put up recently on this topic...

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The actual mechanical "breathing" part of diving has very little to do with your air consumption. Your respiration rate is the RESULT of whatever you're doing, and it's the rest of your technique that effects it the most:

• Are you properly weighted? Extra lead = extra work = more burned gas
  
• Is your trim horizontal? Swimming at a 45deg angle all the time is woefully inefficient!
  
• Are you streamlined? Stuff hanging all over, flapping in the breeze, requires more work to push through the water.
  
• How's your propulsion technique? Bicycle kicking like mad or nice slow, efficient kick cycles? Try a frog kick to really lower your air consumption!
  
• What are you doing with your arms and hands? Most people burn tons of gas with unnecessary arm flailing.
  
• Are you comfortable and relaxed in the water? This is a biggie! If you're huffing and puffing on the verge of panic all the time you're gonna burn through air mighty fast. This one comes with time and experience.
  
• Lastly, the #1 thing you can do to improve your air consumption: SLOW DOWN! Slow EVERYTHING down. Then slow down some MORE. Then, if you think you're going slow...you're STILL going too fast!

Sure it's important to "learn how to breathe underwater" but if you REALLY want to improve your bottom time and gas consumption try these things.

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[9supratt4]

How much gas you need is a classic "supply vs demand" problem. And as such, the first thing you should look at is decreasing DEMAND before worrying about increasing SUPPLY. Here's a post I put up recently on this topic...

--------------------------------------------------------------
The actual mechanical "breathing" part of diving has very little to do with your air consumption. Your respiration rate is the RESULT of whatever you're doing, and it's the rest of your technique that effects it the most:

• Are you properly weighted? Extra lead = extra work = more burned gas
  
• Is your trim horizontal? Swimming at a 45deg angle all the time is woefully inefficient!
  
• Are you streamlined? Stuff hanging all over, flapping in the breeze, requires more work to push through the water.
  
• How's your propulsion technique? Bicycle kicking like mad or nice slow, efficient kick cycles? Try a frog kick to really lower your air consumption!
  
• What are you doing with your arms and hands? Most people burn tons of gas with unnecessary arm flailing.
  
• Are you comfortable and relaxed in the water? This is a biggie! If you're huffing and puffing on the verge of panic all the time you're gonna burn through air mighty fast. This one comes with time and experience.
  
• Lastly, the #1 thing you can do to improve your air consumption: SLOW DOWN! Slow EVERYTHING down. Then slow down some MORE. Then, if you think you're going slow...you're STILL going too fast!

Sure it's important to "learn how to breathe underwater" but if you REALLY want to improve your bottom time and gas consumption try these things.

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That is some great advice!! Great write up too!! And I already do a lot of that.

My last dive trip I dropped from 32lbs to 16lbs..that was awesome!! I think i'm horizonal...lol. I feel horizontal and i'm looking down. I have absolutely nothing hanging. Everything is tucked away nicely in rubber bands that I have throughout my harness. I am working on the frog kick. Can't really get the hang of it. It's kind of an awkward kick. My hands are always folded in front of me and I don't panic....not even when I lose bouyancy or anything.

I know I need more experience...I need a lot more experience. I want to be able to dive and everything come to me second nature. Like it's natural for me to be diving. I'm jsut looking to buy some tanks since those are the last things I need and I found these steel 100's and I figure that they'll always give me more down time which would be nice.

 

[RJP]

I'm jsut looking to buy some tanks since those are the last things I need and I found these steel 100's and I figure that they'll always give me more down time which would be nice.

I'd go ahead and get the steel 100's - but then break them down into singles and get some more dive experience before moving on to doubles.

Come join us on Gypsy Blood some time!

 

[9supratt4]

I'd go ahead and get the steel 100's - but then break them down into singles and get some more dive experience before moving on to doubles.

Come join us on Gypsy Blood some time!

I think that's what i'm going to do....now just to find an extra $500 in cash just for the tanks!!

I'll definitely have to check out the Gypsy Blood...thanks for pointing that out!! The dive shop I belong to is The Dive Shop in Cherry Hill.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

no choice?

He could get a bp/wing which is a choice.
He could split them up which is a choice...

Smartass. How ya doin Randy? Will you be at Scuabfest next year? Stop by the booth and say Hi.

 

[halocline]

Is the deal you're talking about $500 for the two tanks, manifold, and bands? Can you post some particulars, like what are the markings on the tanks, what kind of manifold is it, price, etc? If you do that, we can offer opinions about how a good a deal it is. It might not be such a good deal, in which case you can move on and shop for the best possible tank for you.

If you were to go to doubles, you'd have to get another reg set and a larger wing, at a minimum. If you're not a drysuit diver, you'd probably want to get one of those too before diving steel doubles, especially in cold water. That's because you'll be down there much longer getting colder, and you would be wise to have some redundant buoyancy with the steel doubles, which the drysuit provides. It's not an absolute rule, but I think you'll find very few NJ ocean divers in doubles wearing a wetsuit. (Just a guess)

 

[spectrum]

Definitely staying withing rec. limits. Just looking for more bottom time as I only get about 45 minutes on the AL 80 with depths of up to 50 ft or so. I will probably be doing some wreck diving off of NJ which is between 100-130 ft., but that's probably the deepest. Not ready to get into technical deco diving!!

Your second post went where I was thinking.

Time isn't the whole story. The depth you go to with that extra air will effect your runtime. Obviously you have well ox 2X the air to work with. At 50 feet you can drive yourself into deco. On deeper dives consumption wil go up as will your reserve allowance meaning a lesser increase in bottom time. I other words it's a complex question with a lot of answers. Some of those answers are in the training that will prepare you to make such dives. It is safe to say that more is better.

I'll reinforce what others have said. Give yourself time to find your zen and consumption is likely to drop considerably. That may color what you seek.

Pete

 

[Scared Silly]

Is the deal you're talking about $500 for the two tanks, manifold, and bands? Can you post some particulars, like what are the markings on the tanks, what kind of manifold is it, price, etc? If you do that, we can offer opinions about how a good a deal it is. It might not be such a good deal, in which case you can move on and shop for the best possible tank for you.

I will echo this statement. $500 is perhaps the average price maybe a bit high for a set doubles. I just saw a set of LP95 go for $400 that were very new.

If you were to go to doubles, you'd have to get another reg set and a larger wing, at a minimum. If you're not a drysuit diver, you'd probably want to get one of those too before diving steel doubles, especially in cold water. That's because you'll be down there much longer getting colder, and you would be wise to have some redundant buoyancy with the steel doubles, which the drysuit provides. It's not an absolute rule, but I think you'll find very few NJ ocean divers in doubles wearing a wetsuit. (Just a guess)

Again to echo, learn to dive a dry suit proficiently before you start in on doubles. Trying to learn both at the same time will create unnecessary task loading especially in cold water.

All of the other posts have given some very good advise here.

 

[giles45shop]

How much more down time could I expect to get switch from an AL 80 to HP Steel 100 or HP Steel 100 doubles??

Geez, after 3 pages of useful responses, nobody answered the original question, which was really quite simple. You will get ~ 25% more down time if nothing else changes by going to a HP100 because you are now have an extra 20 ft3 of air. If you could stay down for 30 minutes w/ an 80, you can now stay 37.5 minutes.

Double 100's will give you 2.5X more air than a single 80, but you can't really plan 2.5X more down time as you could be exceeding your NDL on a dive of that length and a different set of dive planning rules are needed.

John

 

[Randy43068]

Smartass. How ya doin Randy? Will you be at Scuabfest next year? Stop by the booth and say Hi.

I'll look you up and buy you a beer.