How many people a year die while ....

[robint]

I think some of you are missunderstanding what the Dive Op does. They do not hand people wavers and say 'it's okay, it's safe, just sign this"
They give long extensive briefings on shark behavior stressing that they are dangerous. They tell divers not to swim near or over the crate (yes, only a crate of fish parts, no chum being throw overboard), they are told not to swim around or to be in mid-water with the sharks. They are told not to move around alot and to look around to make sure there aren't any sharks behind them if they do want to move. Safety is stressed over and over.

The diver who died was not a beginner. No beginners are allowed on the trip. From what I have heard, this wasn't even his first time on this trip, so he knew what was going to happen as far as the sharks and the proceedures.

I know several people who have done this trip and they all truly believe that safety is always stressed to the divers and they divers all know it is dangerous! They all get into the water knowing this. All of them loved the trip and have said they would do it again.

robin

 

[ArcticDiver]

I agree with quite a few of the points you make but I also think the dive industry makes sharks sound like fluffy little kittens that couldn't hurt anyone. I get the impression that many divers believe it. Heck, the dive industry makes diving sound a lot safer than it really is and divers believe that too...until something hapens.

Gee Mike I can't ever remember anyone even intimating that sharks are like "...fluffy little kittens". In any case, as I said, there seems to be a general phobia about sharks. Guess that is why they used a shark in Jaws and not a grouper, eh?

As for diving danger in general; since there is no reliable statistical base for decision I guess this will be a continuing discussion. Those selling one kind of training will present one level of safety while those selling another kind of training will emphasize potential dangers.

 

[MrBill_FTL]

I'm an infrequent vistor to this site.

I'm also a Native So Floridian, started diving at age 11, yet only have open water, and stopped logging dives about 1985. (today im 50)


The basic logic flaw I see in the 'For SHARK DIVE' camps, is shark diving (with food), trains sharks to associate food with divers.

Now what happens when, a week later, some cruisers happen to stop at the same spot, unsuspecting that shark dives have been held in that area?

-this is not too unlike the dolphin (Porpoise), feeding (and subsequent biting), that occured in Melbourne (fl). Seems the dolpin like the bannana river during the winter... and pleasure boaters got in the habit of feeding them.

well one day a little girl was 'playing' with the fish, and it bit her.. nearly severing fingers... next was the kill the fish... media frenzy.

-HOW is shark diving (with food), not leaned behivor?

-now, you want to go to dives sites and not bait the waters... have a fun!
just don't tell me that you chumming or bait ball-ing sharks doen't teach them divers have food!

it does impacts others....

what pisses me off, is tourist from out of state, telling me, that their vaction pleasures trump my safety. If they dove those spots year round they would have more credibility.

-disenters: lets take your childern to tiger beach... for a fun swim... no worries, we don't have any food today... they can't be intrested...

And yeah, I've been close to sharks.. some bulls, and lots of reef sharks. also been top side for hammerheads and tigers... (fishing).


better yet, lets bait some Bears, in your local playground....

 

[deco_martini]

No beginners are allowed on the trip.

Yeah, like the 11 year old.

 

[MrBill_FTL]

DECO, where are you located?

any relation to Dive boat Dry Martini?

 

[robint]

Yeah, like the 11 year old.

what 11 year old? where did you get that?

this is from the JASA website:
Shark diving is a potentially dangerous sport and since there can be strong currents, divers should be fairly experienced. The depths that we anchor in are between 10 and 100 feet. For this reason we ask that all divers be Advanced Open Water certified (or equivalent) and have deep and drift diving experience or have have the basic Open Water certification with a logbook showing the necessary experience. We will screen or question each potential guest as to their experience level

 

[robint]

I'm an infrequent vistor to this site.

I'm also a Native So Floridian, started diving at age 11, yet only have open water, and stopped logging dives about 1985. (today im 50)


The basic logic flaw I see in the 'For SHARK DIVE' camps, is shark diving (with food), trains sharks to associate food with divers.

Now what happens when, a week later, some cruisers happen to stop at the same spot, unsuspecting that shark dives have been held in that area?

-this is not too unlike the dolphin (Porpoise), feeding (and subsequent biting), that occured in Melbourne (fl). Seems the dolpin like the bannana river during the winter... and pleasure boaters got in the habit of feeding them.

well one day a little girl was 'playing' with the fish, and it bit her.. nearly severing fingers... next was the kill the fish... media frenzy.

-HOW is shark diving (with food), not leaned behivor?

-now, you want to go to dives sites and not bait the waters... have a fun!
just don't tell me that you chumming or bait ball-ing sharks doen't teach them divers have food!

it does impacts others....

what pisses me off, is tourist from out of state, telling me, that their vaction pleasures trump my safety. If they dove those spots year round they would have more credibility.

-disenters: lets take your childern to tiger beach... for a fun swim... no worries, we don't have any food today... they can't be intrested...
And yeah, I've been close to sharks.. some bulls, and lots of reef sharks. also been top side for hammerheads and tigers... (fishing).


better yet, lets bait some Bears, in your local playground....

dude, Tiger Beach is not a beach. You can't take your kids there to play. It is out in the ocean off the Bahamas, a sandy spot on the BOTTOM with crystal clear vis (that is why they picked that spot) that is used by several, and I do mean several, dive ops to do the shark encounters. It is far away from shore for that very reason.

oh, and the girl getting bit by the dolphin.... well, she shouldn't have been playing with a wild animal. Dolphins are mammals anyhow, not fish as you stated. Wild is wild. I have been in the water with lots of wild creatures of all kinds, but I don't try to play with them. Just because something is cute and you have seen people play with trained ones on tv doesn't make them safe. The ocean is not a petting zoo.

 

[deco_martini]

what 11 year old? where did you get that?

This forum.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ch...01991-jim-abernathy-s-liveaboard.html#3092215

 

[deco_martini]

Sent PM instead. Mods feel free to delete.

 

[tucker93]

I think you miss the definition of conditioning, (classical conditioning) a behavioral term. It is a process where you pair a neutral stimulus with a stimulus that naturally has an effect, and when paired often enough with the neutral stimulus the neutral stimulus then has the same effect as the natural stimulus. For instance(Pavlov's dog,a dog will salivate at the smell and sight of food(natural stimulus) ring a bell (neutral stimulus) every time you feed a dog and after a while the dog will salivate at the sound of the bell even when no food is present.)
Or in the prior post, a bull shark will travel toward the smell of dead fish, if you pair the sound of a banded speargun with dead fish often enough, the bull shark will travel toward the sound of the spear gun.
This is not to slight the intelligence of the shark, all living creatures with a brain are conditioned.