How do you feel about solo diving?

[AquaTec]

Popeye once bubbled...


What if your buddy panics, and takes you with him?

That's a chance -I- don't have to take.

How many solo deaths were reported in the US last year?

How many divers died with buddies?

How many buddies died -because- of their buddies?

The odds just aren't that much different.

And practically non-existant to begin with.

And it's not about training and c-cards.

It's about self-confidence.

Change the last line to Self Reliance and I like it

 

[detroit diver]

Scuba once bubbled...


The reason this is so controversial is because there is a certain segment of the diving population who refuse to recognize the rights of other individuals to make rational, sound decisions for themselves as to what is in their best interest.

There is no evidence available today of which I am aware of or conclcusive argument to be made that substantiate that solo diving presents a significant increase in risk to the well train and equiped diver for this activity.

The increased risk encountered when buddy diving tec. dives as opposed to rec. dives is accepted, but this same right is denied for those who wish to take this greater risk in the form of solo diving.

The reason this should be addressed and challenged is because there is already one city that I am aware of that does not allow solo diving. Those who do not recognize the rights of others are likely to initiate and/or support the establishment of regulations without corroborating evidence.

Many activities carry a greater risk when done alone. Something as simple as being home alone or walking down the street alone.

Rights? I don't care whether you dive solo or not. You can also jump off a bridge anytime you'd like. But for a recreational scuba board like this, I think it's irresponsible to encourage this type of practice.

 

[Popeye]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Rights? I don't care whether you dive solo or not. You can also jump off a bridge anytime you'd like. But for a recreational scuba board like this, I think it's irresponsible to encourage this type of practice.

Why not? Your position is practically baseless. We're encouraging divers to self educate, analyze, prepare and execute, if they choose to assume a minor additional risk.

The risk is comperable to many other -optional- risks associated with diving, and probably less substantial than many.

Issuing a blanket condemnation, or comparing solo diving to jumping off a bridge is just hyperbole, and sounds like "the sky is falling, the sky is falling", or that solo diving is "bad juju".

I know the DIR mindset is to toe the line, and leave the thinking to others (hence the need for "Rules"), but all it does is produce a perfectly closed mind.

Is there anyone who has an actual -argument- against solo diving?

 

[Scuba]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Rights? I don't care whether you dive solo or not. You can also jump off a bridge anytime you'd like. But for a recreational scuba board like this, I think it's irresponsible to encourage this type of practice.

Thank you on your first comment.

On the second, although I have not encouraged anyone to pursue this activity, I recognize that proclaiming its validity can be construed as such. However, before you accuse me of being irresponsible. I respectfully ask you. Who is more irresponsible, the person who accepts it is a valid form of diving and realizes and notes that proper training and equipment is neccesary to responsibly and safely practice it, or the person who wants to sweep the topic under the table because of its inherent dangers and opposes its practice, along with the establishment of training courses for the benefit of those who wish to practice it?

I am not saying you fall into the second category. I do not know that. But such expressions can be found on this thread.

 

[djhall]

detroit diver once bubbled...
You can purchase all the c-cards and training that you want, but if you have a medical event or other type of event that renders you incapacitated those c-cards will be worth the plastic that they're printed on. I've got a chance to see my family again. You don't.

Point made and granted. In fact, when I read Dr. Paul Thomas' account of his recent diving accident, it appears to have been just this sort of event. His buddy evidently failed to rescue him, for whatever reason, but was successful in summoning the assistance which ulitimately saved Dr. Paul's life. Had he been solo-diving, he would almost certainly be dead right now. (Of course, he came extremely close to dying anyway... it is a miracle he survived.)

Nevertheless, isn't this the main kind of increased risk a solo-diver needs to evaluate and decide if they are willing to accept. How does this fundamentally change anything. It appears to me that solo-diving opponents are judging this to be too great a risk for anyone to take, and not just for themselves. Personally, I see many parallells. Driving solo on a windy road along the ocean cliffs on the way to a buddy dive, I am just as dead in the event of a medical emergency as I am in the water.

PS: I have never personally dove "officially" solo, though I consider most buddy dives to be solo dives in many respects. Self-reliance is a prime tennent of mine.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Scuba once bubbled...


Who is more irresponsible, the person who accepts it is a valid form of diving and realizes and notes that proper training and equipment is neccesary to responsibly and safely practice it, or the person who wants to sweep the topic under the table because of its inherent dangers and opposes its practice, along with the establishment of training courses for the benefit of those who wish to practice it?

What is proper equipment and training for solo diving. IMO, the proper training (if there is such a thing) is not available in the recreational dive industry.

 

[Popeye]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


What is proper equipment and training for solo diving. IMO, the proper training (if there is such a thing) is not available in the recreational dive industry.

Could you elaborate a teeny bit?

What training do you consider sufficient?

Why do you arbitrarily state that two days of training isn't enough time when 1) you can learn to dive in three, and 2) you say the proper training may not exist at all.

What equipment do you feel is necessary?

Why do you feel that solo diving has no place in the recreational dive industry, since 53% of the poll respondents say they solo dive? 40% say they solo dive -frequently-.

Wouldn't this again, indicate a legion of injury and death if it was as dangerous as you imply?

Can you even think of a solo death last year that didn't happen on a rebreather or in a cave?

Isn't your position rather "head in the sand"?

I've previously stated that assuming the risk of solo diving is no different than progressing to different levels of technical diving.

How much additional risk does a rec diver assume to become a cave diver? Why is that more acceptable?

Any comment on that?

 

[Walter]

I never encourage solo diving.

I recognize the rights of adults to make choices for themselves, those choices include the decision to dive solo.

A small percentage of divers can dive solo with minimal risk.

The argument that you can learn solo diving in 2 days if you can learn to dive in 3 does not hold up under examination. I've never seen or heard of a 3 day OW course that I believe adequately taught anyone to dive.

I live in an area where solo diving is very common. Conditions are frequently poor - high seas, low viz, etc. Few of these solo divers have training beyond OW, few have equipment any different than what you'd see in a typical OW class (not counting the speargun and stringer). These folks make hundreds (thousands?) of solo dives to depths exceeding 130 ft every year. Many of them are divers who really aren't ready to be diving solo. OTOH, problems are extremely rare.

I'll dive with practically anyone, but I do so knowing I'm increasing my risk. I figure my risk is lowest when I dive with some specific buddies I know very well, next lowest when I'm alone and highest when I dive with most of the divers I run into on boats around the world.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Popeye,
Fair enough questions and I'll take a stab at answering them based on my own experience.

You asked
"What training do you consider sufficient?"

I am not aware of any. I have said alot already (earlier in the thread) about why I think the SDI course is a joke. If someone chooses to solo dive but I am against anything that encourages recreational divers to do so.

You ask
"Why do you arbitrarily state that two days of training isn't enough time when 1) you can learn to dive in three, and 2) you say the proper training may not exist at all."

The SDI course consists of two dives. Also, I don't believe you can learn to dive in three days. I am not sure the premise of "solo training" is valid.


You asked
"What equipment do you feel is necessary?"
As an instructor with tech and cave training I don't know what equipment is required for recreational solo solo diving. I am also fairly certain that none of the solo instructors that I know do either.

You ask
"Why do you feel that solo diving has no place in the recreational dive industry, since 53% of the poll respondents say they solo dive? 40% say they solo dive -frequently-."

Most of the divers I see have poor technique, awareness and in general make a mess. That doesn't make it a good idea.

You say
"Wouldn't this again, indicate a legion of injury and death if it was as dangerous as you imply?

Can you even think of a solo death last year that didn't happen on a rebreather or in a cave?"

As far as I know the vast majority of diver deaths take place when the diver is solo. Many times they are not intentionally solo but the are solo when they die. Divers who do not have the awareness and control to stay with a team IMO should not dive alone. IMO, what is needed here is better training in team diving.

You say
"Isn't your position rather "head in the sand"?"

Given my experience with the average skill level in recreational diving I don't think it is me who has their head in the sand.

You ask
"How much additional risk does a rec diver assume to become a cave diver? Why is that more acceptable?"

A cave diver learns and develops a specific skill set in preperation fot the cave environment. All the solo rec diver I have seen are just the average rec diver alone. Why don't you compare a rec diver and a cave diver in the water and you tell me what you think the difference is.

 

[Popeye]

Walter once bubbled...
I never encourage solo diving.

I recognize the rights of adults to make choices for themselves, those choices include the decision to dive solo.

A small percentage of divers can dive solo with minimal risk.

The argument that you can learn solo diving in 2 days if you can learn to dive in 3 does not hold up under examination. I've never seen or heard of a 3 day OW course that I believe adequately taught anyone to dive.

I live in an area where solo diving is very common. Conditions are frequently poor - high seas, low viz, etc. Few of these solo divers have training beyond OW, few have equipment any different than what you'd see in a typical OW class (not counting the speargun and stringer). These folks make hundreds (thousands?) of solo dives to depths exceeding 130 ft every year. Many of them are divers who really aren't ready to be diving solo. OTOH, problems are extremely rare.

I'll dive with practically anyone, but I do so knowing I'm increasing my risk. I figure my risk is lowest when I dive with some specific buddies I know very well, next lowest when I'm alone and highest when I dive with most of the divers I run into on boats around the world.

It seems your first sentance is contradictory with your last paragraph. You rate solo diving as safer than diving with -most- unknown divers.

That certainly indicates it as a viable option.

As far as many of your local divers being unprepared, I would assume that indicates the need for training.

As far as 3 day grads, that's a different argument, for another thread.

I'm a 3 day grad, and there are tens of thousands out there.

Assuming a reasonable base proficiency at diving, what do you think a diver would have to learn to dive solo?

There's very little difference in gear, that's about 30 min of instruction. What else would one need? (I have my own opinions, I'm curious about yours)