How do you feel about solo diving?

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't noticed anyone being hostile about self reliance. I for one believe that if you aren't comfortable doing a dive alone you have no business in the water. Every diver should be prepared to finish a dive alone. I don't care if someone choses to dive alone. Why should I? I am against the promotion of it though. I am also uncomfotable with the promotion of tchnical diving.

I am certainly against the teaching of solo diving as I see it being tought around here. Manifolded or independant doubles are two of the options for a redundant air source listed in the class. I know three instructors teaching this class and none has ever worn a set of doubles. How will they teach valve manipulation drills? In my experience it takes many divers more than two dives just to master that. If you can't quickly shut down the correct valve they are just additional places to spring a leak. How can an instructor with no experience is this equipment teach it? I say the premis is seriously flawed.

I addition, in an environment where a large percentage of divers don't have the control and awareness to stay with a buddy I find it a stretch to believe they have the awareness and control to manage solo.

 

[djhall]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I don't care if someone choses to dive alone. Why should I? I am against the promotion of it though. I am also uncomfotable with the promotion of tchnical diving.
...
I am certainly against the teaching of solo diving as I see it being tought around here.
...
How can an instructor with no experience is this equipment teach it? I say the premis is seriously flawed.
...
I addition, in an environment where a large percentage of divers don't have the control and awareness to stay with a buddy I find it a stretch to believe they have the awareness and control to manage solo.

Yes, but I ask you again, why should this be a reason to discourage the teaching of advanced and technical diving (categories in which I believe solo-diving belongs) as opposed to recognizing and teaching these for what they are: ADVANCED diving skills that should be taught by ADVANCED dive instructors to ADVANCED, EXPERIENCED, and COMPETENT divers? (And I don't mean advanced in the "can assemble your gear all on your own" sense of the word like PADI seems to.) If I took your approach to solving these problems and combined it with your view of the average basic diver, I would be forced to conclude that openwater dive classes are woefully inadequate, and thus I cannot support the promotion of diving in general. While I agree that the classes and standards I have seen are generally pathetic, I believe the answer is to place quality above churning out c-cards by the millions to anyone who will pay the certification fee..., um, I mean the class fee. Maybe only one in a hundred divers/instructors are qualified for this training. Fine! Why not set it up and make standard that recognize and reflect that fact. The primary reason I can see is the reality that PADI and other agencies would never set standards that high... it's bad for volume. Okay, but place the blame where it belongs... on the certifying agencies, not on the divers who want to pursue advanced diving techniques.

 

[MikeFerrara]

djhall,

For the most part I agree with what you say. Bt I don't think the purpose of the solo course is to teach advanced diving to advanced divers. I think the purpose is to sell a card to someone who is likely already diving solo on charters or wishes they could and to give DM's a lagitimate way to let divers do what they are already doing. IMO, it attempts to lagitimize something we should be fixing. Of the divers I know who reoutinely dive solo somehow I just can't see then being interested in this class.

Around here it's just something else to sell. I had an instructor (who is a new instructor with no tech training at all offer to teach this class for me if I would advertise it. That will be the day.

At a local quarry where I have tought for years I can't install or retrieve a float unless I bring another diver with me. It may not be a good idea anyway but it is something instructors and DM's have always done. Unless of course I were to take one of their solo classes. At this very site I rescued a card carrying solo diver before this outfit started selling the card. IT IMO is the joke of all jokes. If it wasn't for the fact that many if not most diving accidents (other than medical problems of course) involve buddy seperation or some solo situation it would really be funny.

You are free to disagree but I think this class is a huge disservice to the dive community. When I think about who it is that this class is being sold to it makes me cringe.

 

[Walter]

Popeye,

"It seems your first sentance is contradictory with your last paragraph."

You assume too much.

Most divers shouldn't ever dive solo. Solo diving requires a great deal of experience and a very high skill level. There are divers who dive solo every day, but it's not for everyone. Even a diver with the skills and experience is at greater risk diving solo in the event of unexpected medical problems such as a heart attack or an allergic reaction to a bristle worm sting.

A medical problem is the mostly situation that would cause me problems while diving. Chances of that happening are small. For most divers, the most likely situation that will cause them problems is screwing up. In diving with an unfamiliar buddy, the the mostly situation that would cause me problems is my buddy screwing up (it's happened many, many times). The changes of this being something with which I cannot effectively deal are slim, but the chance does exist that as a result I will be injured or killed. While this chance exists for other divers as well, the chances are not as likely as them screwing up while diving solo.

Don't assume and think things out.

"I'm a 3 day grad, and there are tens of thousands out there.

Assuming a reasonable base proficiency at diving, what do you think a diver would have to learn to dive solo?"

I would start with everything that was left out of your 3 day class. Those tens of thousands scare me when I see them on charter boats. More evidence of incompetent instruction.

"What else would one need?"

You'll have to go elsewhere (SDI?) for your solo course. I don't teach it, nor do I believe it should be taught. If you are capable of diving solo you are aware of it and certainly don't need some instructor with less experience than you to tell you so. If you aren't capable of diving solo, no amount of instruction will prepare you for it. If you aren't sure, you aren't ready.

 

[Dee]

Walter once bubbled...
....You'll have to go elsewhere (SDI?) for your solo course. I don't teach it, nor do I believe it should be taught. If you are capable of diving solo you are aware of it and certainly don't need some instructor with less experience than you to tell you so. If you aren't capable of diving solo, no amount of instruction will prepare you for it. If you aren't sure, you aren't ready.

Very well said, Walter.

 

[detroit diver]

Dee-

I just noticed your title "senior regulator".

Does that refer to age, or board ability?

Tongue-in-cheek....

 

[Walter]

She's just a young'un. It refers to the fact she's been a regulator longer than those who have "regulator" under their names.

 

[djhall]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
djhall,

For the most part I agree with what you say. Bt I don't think the purpose of the solo course is to teach advanced diving to advanced divers. I think the purpose is to sell a card to someone who is likely already diving solo on charters or wishes they could and to give DM's a lagitimate way to let divers do what they are already doing. IMO, it attempts to lagitimize something we should be fixing. Of the divers I know who reoutinely dive solo somehow I just can't see then being interested in this class.

Around here it's just something else to sell. I had an instructor (who is a new instructor with no tech training at all offer to teach this class for me if I would advertise it. That will be the day.

At a local quarry where I have tought for years I can't install or retrieve a float unless I bring another diver with me. It may not be a good idea anyway but it is something instructors and DM's have always done. Unless of course I were to take one of their solo classes. At this very site I rescued a card carrying solo diver before this outfit started selling the card. IT IMO is the joke of all jokes. If it wasn't for the fact that many if not most diving accidents (other than medical problems of course) involve buddy seperation or some solo situation it would really be funny.

You are free to disagree but I think this class is a huge disservice to the dive community. When I think about who it is that this class is being sold to it makes me cringe.

At this level, I think we agree much more than we disagree. I think the existing class, its instructors, and the students it is sold to are a complete farce. Like the instructor you mention with no tech training who wanted to teach the class... with no tech training, I'm not sure he should even be qualified to TAKE the class, nevermind teaching it.

No, the existing solo-diver class situation probably should not be sanctioned. I also agree that the major certifying agencies are virtually unable to offer a course that would be acceptable because they have gone too far down the road of selling "advanced" certifications to barely competent novice divers to get serious about training now. To teach a truly advanced class to truly advanced divers would make it obvious how inadequate their other "advanced" training really is.

I simply feel that ignoring solo-diving is as dangerous as ignoring cave diving or wreck diving. People ARE going to do it, trained or not. A policy that forbids an experienced wreck or cave instructor from setting a float in 40 feet of water solo invites divers to make the judment that the policies are unrealistic and therefore meaningless. Having experienced divers take the position that, "If you are capable of diving solo you are aware of it," just invites people who are terrible divers, but who think they are great, to declare themselves ready and fire away. Other divers, seeing people who are in no way qualified to do this kind of activity doing it anyway are going to think they too are ready. When the cert agencies protest, divers are just going to roll their eyes at them an laugh. After all, the same agency just cetified them as an "advanced" diver, didn't they? Frankly, the same problem applies (perhaps even worse) if a cert agency runs around certifying novice divers as advanced solo-divers (as it appears SDI is).

Maybe GUE or TDI or someone with some credibility in the technical world will step in and provide a solo-course with somthing approaching adequate standards. This would give us all a high bar to point to when evaluating the requirements for engaging in this practice.

 

[detroit diver]

djhall once bubbled...
........

Maybe GUE or TDI or someone with some credibility in the technical world will step in and provide a solo-course with somthing approaching adequate standards. This would give us all a high bar to point to when evaluating the requirements for engaging in this practice.

I can't imagine GUE EVER offering that course, although they would be the best qualified to do so. It just goes against everything that they teach. I don't know much about TDI, though.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Actually the current course is SDI which is TDI.