How do you feel about solo diving?

[MikeFerrara]

IMO, we have made it so easy for so long that the teachers don't even know how. There are some very simple changes that can be made to training that make divers better without taking a bunch of time or work. And...it makes it all easier not harder. Even better for the holiday diver.

Being too fat won't prevent one from reaching back and grabbing the reg hose but having ones equipment put together incorrectly will. All my students do it or they never get to OW.

 

[Big-t-2538]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Even better for the holiday diver.

Being too fat won't prevent one from reaching back and grabbing the reg hose but having ones equipment put together incorrectly will. All my students do it or they never get to OW.

Personally, I am not flexible, I have a lot of range of motion in my shoulders, but I just don't stretch that well. One would think that being a former NCAA swimmer that this wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not normal. It is hard for me to reach the back of my tank and grab the reg at it's root for two reasons...the first being inflexibility, and the second being that I wear my tank lower than most. I could see where someone with my inflexibility, then having a not so unlimited range of motion with their shoulder couldn't get to it. Granted there aren't a whole lot of people out there who CAN'T grab their hose, most just choose to be lazy. That isn't to say I can't do it (believe me I can and have had to), but I'm not a big fan of demonstrating that skill for a class..

Why do I wear my tank low....personal preference, it is comfortable not to have the first stage whacking me in the head all the time....So some of you might ask "what do you do if a free-flow happens"....uh...I have quick release shoulder straps for a reason....unclip the left side...sling the thing around from my right and turn off the tank (not that I've practiced that...ever...nope, not once). No I don't dive doubles, I have a jacket BC with a single AL-80 tank. If I ever move to doubles I'll figure out what to do then....hell the manifold is a lot wider, it should be easier to reach the valves.

Anyway...thought I'd ramble for a while...so i did

 

[MikeFerrara]

I had a student with severe joint problems. He did it. He can also reach his valves on his doubles.
But the point here is overall skill proficiency. Can you handle these minor problems midwater while staying with your buddy and controling depth and position.

I insist students master that methode of reg reovery because it works under all conditions. The arm sweep only works if your in a position we never want to be in. IMO, it's useless.

It is just an example of how we teach with everyone kneeling. We teach them to do things that work best while kneeling. Then we wonder why so many divers are all over the bottom. It's because they were only tought to manage their equipment if they are on the bottom.

More reasons not to have these divers diving alone.

 

[Phil TK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I insist students master that methode of reg reovery because it works under all conditions. The arm sweep only works if your in a position we never want to be in. IMO, it's useless.

I.

Rubbish, it simply doesn't work under all conditions because you've just read a post from somebody who can't do it! Plus I've told you that I've seen people who can't do it either! If you squelch somebody's diving credibility (big-t) so easily you are not contributing to overcoming divers problems -and for the other experienced divers amongst us who are trying to improve things, that is not much use in the overall picture. This is just what I said about GUE in another thread, like you, they are in danger of alienating the people who might need their knowledge the most.
If two (or more) protagonists can 'discuss' diving problems then the best outcome is that we get something of value out of it. If you carry on patronizing other divers and training methods then you'll get contempt and that leaves us all with a big zero.
An improved OW course is required, I'm certain, but you don't have the feasibility skills to comment on what changes are required because you don't seem to realise the logistics of implementing them.

Phil TK

 

[MikeFerrara]

Phil TK once bubbled...


Rubbish, it simply doesn't work under all conditions because you've just read a post from somebody who can't do it! Plus I've told you that I've seen people who can't do it either! If you squelch somebody's diving credibility (big-t) so easily you are not contributing to overcoming divers problems -and for the other experienced divers amongst us who are trying to improve things, that is not much use in the overall picture. This is just what I said about GUE in another thread, like you, they are in danger of alienating the people who might need their knowledge the most.
If two (or more) protagonists can 'discuss' diving problems then the best outcome is that we get something of value out of it. If you carry on patronizing other divers and training methods then you'll get contempt and that leaves us all with a big zero.
An improved OW course is required, I'm certain, but you don't have the feasibility skills to comment on what changes are required because you don't seem to realise the logistics of implementing them.

Phil TK

Let me rephrase then. I have never had a student who could not do it. And I have had divers with joint problems. If I ever do I will have to come up with something else but the arm sweep IMO isn't it because you must be in a position for the reg to fall alongside the diver. My point was vertical and/or on the bottom is not IMO what we should be striving for. Also what I meant by all conditions was that it works regarless of diver position, current or movement. You might be suprised at the little tricks we have of getting it done. Wearing the tank higher will help many divers trim and that helps. Also the tank can be moved to complete the task when needed. The waist band can even be losened if need be. However the diver remains in the diving position preventing the lost reg from leading to depth changes or other problems. I didn't want to mention it but reg recovery is really easy with a long hose.

If the only methode a diver has is an arm sweep what does a diver do if the reg is cought up behind them and won't fall? Of course this is a solo thread so maybe he is alone.

BTW, I see Big T is from Ohio I would be glad to pop in at Gilboa sometime and take a stab at proving my point in the water.

 

[Dryglove]

Phil TK once bubbled...


Rubbish, it simply doesn't work under all conditions because you've just read a post from somebody who can't do it! Plus I've told you that I've seen people who can't do it either! If you squelch somebody's diving credibility (big-t) so easily you are not contributing to overcoming divers problems -and for the other experienced divers amongst us who are trying to improve things, that is not much use in the overall picture. This is just what I said about GUE in another thread, like you, they are in danger of alienating the people who might need their knowledge the most.
If two (or more) protagonists can 'discuss' diving problems then the best outcome is that we get something of value out of it. If you carry on patronizing other divers and training methods then you'll get contempt and that leaves us all with a big zero.
An improved OW course is required, I'm certain, but you don't have the feasibility skills to comment on what changes are required because you don't seem to realise the logistics of implementing them.

Phil TK

I agree it will work in all conditions if your equipment is worn in a manner to make it work.If you wear the top of your tank half way down your back of course its not gonna work.If you have the valve up around your head where you can reach the hose its not a problem.MikeF teaches open water the way it should be taught.If you wear your equipment in a proper manner and use it in a proper manner it wouldnt be a problem.If you wear your equipment half a$$ expect it to work that way.

 

[Phil TK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Let me rephrase then. I have never had a student who could not do it. And I have had divers with joint problems. If I ever do I will have to come up with something else but the arm sweep IMO isn't it because you must be in a position for the reg to fall alongside the diver. .

I see your point and I for one cringe sometimes when I see tanks incorrectly positioned. Trim of course is the neglected science of scuba. I have often played with the idea of a BCD with multiple air cavities that can be dumped independantly (plus a universal 'dump all' method of course) to change the centre of bouyancy of the diver. I even corresponded with a naval architect who taught me all about metacentric variations on a submerged body and it's effect on stability and trim. (The relation between a divers centre of gravity and his centre of bouyancy) Interesting stuff, but difficult to measure on a diver although you can 'feel' the metacentric deviations if you move your tank lower or higher and put weights in different places (just for experiments sake only). A good example of this is the crude but effective 'airhead' cure of putting weights just behind the top of the tank -you move the divers c of g closer to the c of bouyancy thus 'turning' the diver in the water and improving trim.
Anyway, I'm running wild off the thread, but maybe something has already come out of this Mike -How about a reg retrieval method that incorporates both arm sweep and grabbing the hose root? If the reg IS by your side you will get it with a sweep, but if not you just carry your arm round in the same movement and grab the root and retreive it as per your preffered method. This is just a suggestion.

Phil TK

 

[Phil TK]

lal7176 once bubbled...


I agree it will work in all conditions if your equipment is worn in a manner to make it work.If you wear the top of your tank half way down your back of course its not gonna work.If you have the valve up around your head where you can reach the hose its not a problem.MikeF teaches open water the way it should be taught.If you wear your equipment in a proper manner and use it in a proper manner it wouldnt be a problem.If you wear your equipment half a$$ expect it to work that way.

I agree but some fatter persons may still not be able to reach it easily. Since Mikes post when he informed me that anybody can do it I'll put that down to technique or lack of, rather than an impossibility par se.
What I was getting at was the practicality of getting people to try these skills. With a bunch of holiday divers who only dive once a year you usually have many things to go over in your brief and you want to avoid stressors. I would consider in some cases that informing a 'yearly' diver that he will be trying a new skill straight off might be a stressor -whilst practising something he has done before (arm sweep) is not a stressor at all. If I had the time though and thought they were up to it I might suggest they try the other method though -I 'd have to make that judgement at the time and place. If they dived with me the next day too that might be a better opportunity to try it maybe.
Don't forget that many divers find it patronizing if you suggest any skills practise in the first place and hate you for it, they can misguidedly perceive that you don't have any confidence in them.

Phil TK

 

[Dryglove]

I use a 7ft hose dir style now.Its pretty hard to lose that thing if it falls out of your mouth and the hose would be easy to find if you did as it goes across the back of your neck.Im not ranting on dir just trying to show an example for use of the long hose.

 

[Fetch]

(Devil's Advocate)

with a long hose, ability to do a recovery from the first-stage is even more important. If it is fully deployed, a recovery from the first stage to 2nd is the only real way to make sure that you restow it properly

jeff

lal7176 once bubbled...
I use a 7ft hose dir style now.Its pretty hard to lose that thing if it falls out of your mouth and the hose would be easy to find if you did as it goes across the back of your neck.Im not ranting on dir just trying to show an example for use of the long hose.