How do you feel about solo diving?

[Uncle Pug]

Genesis once bubbled...
I don't condone diving at all! Its an inherently hazardous undertaking in all of its forms

I respect your decision.

However I will continue to dive... in fact I'm going to go diving this afternoon and give a BP/wing demo... plus some more schoolin' in the skills of buddy diving.

 

[Genesis]

I don't "condone" diving, but I do dive and intend to continue to do so, and will continue to learn as I do, and progress as it becomes appropriate.

The difference Pug, is that I both respect your choice and take responsibility for my own.

 

[Lawman]

This is America..land of opportunity. We can disagree
on training and diving methods and still be friends.
Lighten up.

 

[Phil TK]

Lawman once bubbled...
This is America..land of opportunity.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!


Phil TK

 

[Wreck/Tec]

Mike F. has some good points. Having a buddy should be done well in advance of doing the dive. Your problems are minimised when you eliminate guess work like who to dive with. I also agree that a stress and rescue coarse is a huge plus. I disagree that divers ( some, not all ) that don't have a stress and rescue cert. are somehow inferrior. Certifications by them selves are just plastic, the man, or woman, makes it work. You don't have to look far to see some who have bought their way to a higher level of certification and don't posess the wright stuff.
One thing I rarely see is divers practicing their basic skills. Something as simple as a new pair of gloves can change things dramatically with respect to being able to manipulate gear and preform these skills. Some things have humble roots. I believe this is one of those things. As for solo diving I have said my piece earlier in this thread. This is the beautiful thing about this site..........All this difference of opinion, and not one black eye!

 

[joens]

I have several comments from different areas of the thread
1 I think there should have been another option on the poll "done it likely will do it again but not my preferred dive method."
2 I dont believe one can be a good diver without the confidence and ability /eguipment to dive solo regardless of whether you do or not ,for example if you are diving with your buddy and get seperated or something happens . do you have the presence of mind to handle the situation on your own or do you panic without your buddy.
3 I dont believe dive shops should actively sell solo courses but it should be available for those who inquire or are wanting to do it can do it as safe as possible.
4 I agree that solo diving is not the answer to a bad buddy situation .the reason to dive solo is because you want to.
5 a diver should not be using a buddy as a crutch or following a buddy where they are not comfortable going alone
6 some fish swim in schools and some by themselves same with divers .whatever you do do it as safe as you can.
joens

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...
that skill set in your OW class.

You don't, of course, which is a problem, unless you're conscientous enough to do it yourself.

Witness how many RENTAL reg sets (on which they train you) and how many purchased sets on dive boats that have $20 octos. You know the type - they MIGHT give you a gulp or two of air, MAYBE, they MIGHT have been serviced sometime in the last 10 years, and they MIGHT not be full of sand or mud when you need them.

In my experience diving on cattle boats, which I no longer do (but did when I started) I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of reg sets that had reasonably-identical performing primaries and backups. The shop that I took my training from had two different brands - one had "ok" backups, in that they were all SPs (and SP doesn't make a "horrible" reg) but the other were something else entirely. I had the "pleasantry" of using one for an S-drill with my dive buddy once and was damn near drowned due to rather extreme wet breathing (and in salt water too - yecch!)

Of the people on the cattle boats who owned their own gear, I think I saw perhaps two in all of my dives on them with good-performing backups. Most were the $50 kind, and even better, one guy who showed up without one (it was a requirement on the dive boat) had the crew screw on one of those "flat hockey puck" $50 ones on his kit so he could go diving that day.

Boy, that says a lot about how far beyond LIP SERVICE the folks paid to the ACTUAL requirement for a second air source, doesn't it?

THIS is the "state of the world" when it comes to training.

You want to rail against solo diving when this is reality in the so-called "buddy system" of diving generally? I was effectively diving solo during my OW class, because the buddy I was assigned was simply incapable of being one! What was my option? Refuse to dive with him? That's nice, then I don't get my cert at all, because now we suddenly have the "wrong" number of people in the class. And don't say "your instructor is your buddy", because you and I both know that my instructor is going to be doing something with other people most of the time, and of course Murphy doesn't pay any attention to when you might have an equipment problem.

I do not "condone" solo diving. I don't condone diving at all! Its an inherently hazardous undertaking in all of its forms, and the various combinations of diving and buddies (or lack thereof) is a matter for PERSONAL CHOICE.

My azz, my decision.

Period.

Now you have said some things that I agree with. Some of the same folks who fail at teaching the buddy system seem to be offering the solo course as a fix. Makes sense...they see the're really sending you out on your own so they come up with a new card and offer to rent you a pony.

Some sayings come to mind:
Buyer beware
There is a sucker born every minute
It's just business
Business is war

I think I have been known to rail against a bunch training issues not just the solo class. However I rail against the solo course most on solo diving threads.

It needs to be fixed or at least less broke.

 

[Phil TK]

Wreck/Tec once bubbled...

One thing I rarely see is divers practicing their basic skills.

I was lead once by a very brave DM/Inst in Turkey -called Nemit I think, working for Divers Delight in Fetiay.
He ALWAYS started a dive by having everyone (paying fun divers) kneel on the bottom and do 5 minutes of basic skills. This caused a bit of trouble during his brief on one occaision but he was pretty convincing explaining the reasons and the importance of setting a good example. He reasoned that during those 5 minutes everyone has the chance to relax and use less air at the start and partially assess the ability and confidence of their fellow divers. It also gives plenty of time for those who get a little bit of a block to come down comfortably without feeling rushed.
Of course not everyone was perfect at the skills he chose, just about everyone in one group forgot to dip their shoulder on reg recovery and some of the mask clearing was messy. I thought it was a great idea overall and we all had 45mins with a 20m bottom which is a good dive, so we hardly 'wasted' time.
Some groups I've taken would give me grief if I suggested this tactic but as a suggestion why not make such a session advisory in OW training. Perhaps log books might have a little box you tick every 10 pages to remind you to do a little skill session. Many holiday divers NEVER practise their skills after certification.
Until they meet Nemit of course.

Phil TK

 

[MikeFerrara]

Phil TK and all,
Not to pick really but...

kneel on the bottom to do skills like mask clearing? Dip a shoulder for reg recovery? Arm sweep method? A method that requires one to be vertical. Why not do skills neutral off the bottom? A fool proof reg recovery method is to reach behind and grab the hose and follow it to the reg. This works in any position and even in a current or when moving. Recreational diving needs to be be revamped from the beginning IMO.

This is why I don't believe we should promote solo diving. Divers who need to kneel on the bottom to do basic skills shouldn't dive without supervision and certainly shouldn't dive solo.

 

[Phil TK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Phil TK and all,
Not to pick really but...

kneel on the bottom to do skills like mask clearing? Dip a shoulder for reg recovery? Arm sweep method? A method that requires one to be vertical. Why not do skills neutral off the bottom? A fool proof reg recovery method is to reach behind and grab the hose and follow it to the reg. This works in any position and even in a current or when moving. Recreational diving needs to be be revamped from the beginning IMO.

This is why I don't believe we should promote solo diving. Divers who need to kneel on the bottom to do basic skills shouldn't dive without supervision and certainly shouldn't dive solo.

Well obviously, but solutions need to be practical and in the context of holiday divers you are not going to get them to do stuff like that. I agree with you that a revamp in training is required but we don't have one yet. Holiday divers can only practise what they have been taught by PADI OW (for most of them) and we can only ask them to hone the skills they have been taught. In the ideal world I would have them do gear swaps and mask clearing whilst upside down but they are on holiday and would tell me to f___ off leave them alone.
Many divers are simply doing it for a part time hobby and we can only do so much, short of telling them to either train properly or stay out of the water -they wouldn't be interested in either -most of them.

Phil TK
As a footnote I have seen holidaying persons way too fat to recover their reg by grabbing the hose at it's root.