How do you feel about guaranteed to pass IE programs?

[lazyturtle]

AND, you also don't have to teach the tables anymore either (at least at my LDS)... Our instructors have abandoned them in favor of the eRDP....

I've yet to use them, but isn't the eRPD just a dive table in electronic form? If the information is the same does it matter if you can trace lines up and down a table or punch a few keys so long as you are able to plan your dive? You're not really making much of a calculation (adding ABT +RNT)when you use the RDP anyway..

 

[RiverRat]

If the information is the same does it matter if you can trace lines up and down a table or punch a few keys so long as you are able to plan your dive? You're not really making much of a calculation (adding ABT +RNT)when you use the RDP anyway..

That's the problem. You need to engage your brain and think to keep it healthy. It's more than just tracing lines. There is some addition going on. You've got to remember the process to get the correct results to plan your dives. I firmly believe it forces a diver to think and plan dives better. If you start giving new students tools like this to "plan" their dives without any thought on their part then they are taught to be lazy from the get go. Same with dumbing down the Nitrox course. I remember when I did mine it was the FIRST time I was taught to really start thinking about how various gases affect a diver during a dive. Then I started to get into gas planning, SAC rates, rock bottom, turn pressures etc. Now they want to dumb that down. I don't think it's good. I'm a fairly new diver, 4 years. Talk to the old timers and you'll see how much has been cut out of dive instruction over the decades.

 

[lazyturtle]

I don't understand this thread?
I am putting in the hours studying, and paying attention to detail while training... I will pass, no problem, I am confident... If someone can't pass the IE the first time out, then they should consider whether they actually are ready to become an instructor. I know if I fail for some reason, I will question my true intentions, but I won't, because I WANT IT..

Ok first of all if a student successfully passed the IDC there should be no reason why they shouldn't pass the IE. The IE is just showing what you learned in the IDC.
I think that by failing the IE, PADI is in fact telling them they are not ready to become an instructor. If they really want to be an instructor, taking another class and exam may just make them ready (or if they're bad they'll fail again). Just because you fail at something once does not mean you are incapable of passing in the future. Didn't your parents teach you: 'If at first you don't succeed, try, try again’?

In all industries it's pretty standard to retake tests or courses as need be. I know people who've retaken IEs, college courses, driver license exams, bar exams, CPA exams, captain's license exams..the list goes on. I mean when you get on THE BUS, do you know the driver passed his drivers test on the first try? When you go to the doctor’s office do you know if he passed organic chemistry on his first try? I think it can be expected that some people may need more than one try to pass a class or exam and still 'want' it.

 

[lazyturtle]

That's the problem. You need to engage your brain and think to keep it healthy. It's more than just tracing lines. There is some addition going on. You've got to remember the process to get the correct results to plan your dives. I firmly believe it forces a diver to think and plan dives better. If you start giving new students tools like this to "plan" their dives without any thought on their part then they are taught to be lazy from the get go. Same with dumbing down the Nitrox course. I remember when I did mine it was the FIRST time I was taught to really start thinking about how various gases affect a diver during a dive. Then I started to get into gas planning, SAC rates, rock bottom, turn pressures etc. Now they want to dumb that down. I don't think it's good. I'm a fairly new diver, 4 years. Talk to the old timers and you'll see how much has been cut out of dive instruction over the decades.

Ok using a standard RDP does NOT require thinking: there's ARROWS pointing where you need to go. I'm actually always amazed how many people have difficulty with tables in the first place, I think it has to do with information density (there's lots of small numbers). Yes there is some addition involved (if you're making repetitive dives that is), but I've yet to have a student who couldn't add two numbers together. If someone cannot add (I once taught two fishermen in the Bahamas who couldn't read or write, but they knew what to do in the water) should they be banned from diving?

The problem with talking to 'old timers' is that they're stuck in the 'good ol' days'. Things were always better in the past. They make crazy statements like 'Back in my day we didn't have school buses, we had to walk 5 miles (uphill in both directions) in a blizzard while dinosaurs and morlocks chased us to get to school AND WE LIKED IT!' or 'Those instructors these days know nothing, HEY GET OFF MY SEAGRASS!''
Things weren't always better in the 'good old days', but it's sure easier to remember them that way.

 

[Gombessa]

From first glance, this looks like nothing more than a discount program. They're not saying they'll slip you your card once as soon as you fork over the money. They're willing to bet that their training (or re-training) is good enough to get their students to pass, and that the offer will be profitable because it will entice more people to sign up with them. It's along the same line as a "pass or your money back" promotion, which I'm sure few would have a problem with. Whether they honor their guarantee or the quality of their teaching really isn't at issue in this context.

And the whole "we're the best in the world" bit is mere puffery. Every industry has players who do it to some degree (though not all are like used car salesmen), and you'll be hard-pressed to find a reasonable customer who takes it at face value. It certainly may be tacky, but not much else.

 

[neil]

I've yet to use them, but isn't the eRPD just a dive table in electronic form? If the information is the same does it matter if you can trace lines up and down a table or punch a few keys so long as you are able to plan your dive? You're not really making much of a calculation (adding ABT +RNT)when you use the RDP anyway..

The information may be the same but there is value in learning it in the linear and more analagous form of the table: you do this, that happens, then this, etc.
I liken it to the digital watch: it tells you what time it is, but does not indicate how much time until or after that time. You have to use your brain for that. With dive tables it's easier to see the consequences of different actions quickly and in a way more analagous to actual dive actions than numbers on a calculator. AND, you can take it in the water with you. N-i-i-c-e!

 

[Thalassamania]

Why use a $5 tool when a $20 tool will do?

 

[rigdiver]

The Instructor's today from some agency's just don't know what they don't know.

 

[rigdiver]

I actually think the quality of instructors has dropped to the point that it no longer matters if there is or isn't a guaranteed pass.

No doubt in my mind.

 

[neil]

The Instructor's today from some agency's just don't know what they don't know.

The following is not directed personally at rigdiver:

Was there a magical time when anybody knew what they didn't know? I know what I didn't know then, but still don't know what I don't know now. How do I know that you know what I don't know now if nobody knows what they don't know? If a person knows what they don't know, don't they know it?

Enough of that. Although we all sort of accept what this means, it's still the dumbest comment that we ALL use. Let's stop, it's meaningless.