How about this?? Nitrox c-card without a single checkout dive

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

nauidiver2004:
Now that sounds really arrogant from someone who just days ago (8/11/05)posted:




And particularly since later in the thread you posted:


I am starting to wonder, do you just regurgitate what you read here and instantly become an expert?

PS, good luck on finishing your AOW. You will need to dive to do that.



Geks you might want to duck :wink:

Nauidiver2004, now that i've read your profile, you claim to be nitrox certified, through naui no less (huge suprise). NAUI requires dives for nitrox (if i remember correctly) Why don't you share with the group what you feel you gained by having to dive for that? Or would that be too productive for you? Too on topic?

Or better yet, explain why you think the trimix/heliox argument has a place here?
 
I recently decided to get Nitrox certified using the American Dive Center online course. I gave alot of thought to the no dives required issue before commiting but came to the conclusion that as a resonably experienced diver I would be ok learning the book knowledge first and doing the dives at a later time.

The number one reason I chose this course was cost. Less than half the cost of the PADI Nitrox classes I have seen around, thus leaving me with a bit of extra cash to use on Nitrox fills to do the actual dives.

I would not chose this approach with any other scuba training, but I am happy with my choice in this instance.
 
OK, guys, let's back off the personal issues.

the K
 
Kupu:
I recently decided to get Nitrox certified using the American Dive Center online course. I gave alot of thought to the no dives required issue before commiting but came to the conclusion that as a resonably experienced diver I would be ok learning the book knowledge first and doing the dives at a later time.

The number one reason I chose this course was cost. Less than half the cost of the PADI Nitrox classes I have seen around, thus leaving me with a bit of extra cash to use on Nitrox fills to do the actual dives.

I would not chose this approach with any other scuba training, but I am happy with my choice in this instance.
This is sound reasoning.

Nitrox is a course for a broad range of divers, from the guy who signs up the day he completes OW to the gal with thousands of dives on air who wants to go for a greater safety factor.

Since nothing about nitrox is learned in the water, requiring dives after training accomplishes nothing toward nitrox education.

If a diver wants more out of a nitrox course, he is free to question the instructor in the classroom or while analyzing tanks. Insisting on dives appears to benefit few if any divers.
 
And Nitrox is certainly a course which would benefit from a price reduction. For some reason it's one of the most expensive specialities despite being basically theory. At many schools you seem to be able to do PPB and Equipment Specialist together for the same price as Nitrox.

If scrapping the dives got the price down to a reasonable level then it would be a good move.
 
Obviously nothing can be learned on the nitrox checkout dives, but perhaps they have other motives in requiring the dives? So far in this thread, there has only been 1 instructor's input. I wonder what they are supposed to do on the checkout dives if anything?
I paid $150 for my PADI nitrox cert, which included a 2 tank boat trip. The boat trip usually costs about $65 so basically like previous posts said...

If the dives were left off the requirement for the course, it would only cost about $90.
 
I recently saw a PADI online course offered at the PADI home site. Can't remember whether you must complete the course with a local dive shop, but the price was quite reasonable.

I want a c-card for nitrox and am considering taking the online course. What do you think?

Stan
 
Obviously nothing can be learned on the nitrox checkout dives...
So sad to read statements like this... I have some reasonable dive experience, and I'm always hopeful that I will learn and gain from my next dive, or from a diver who knows more than I do. I hope I never succumb to the next opportunity to learn something new with the attitude that there's nothing to learn, I'm getting ripped off, there's a hidden motive, etc...

Back to the original post: Many agencies do not require dives with a nitrox class. Some give the option. Individual instructors wrestle with the economics of it, as well as with the tendency among cyber divers to rant about diving more than they actually dive. Its weird to good instructors that people say they want to learn, but won't actively work to learn - folks will spend more hours arguing about a thing than they do working to learn it. And many actively avoid being put in learning situations. (Just gimme the card - I already know all I need, and you can't teach me anythging anyway!)

Personally, I require dives in any dive class that I teach, including nitrox. I would not want to expose myself to the moral and legal issues by certifying a person to add complexity to their dives if I've never been in the water with them. Seems sorta basic to me, but then I'm a teacher, so that logic matches my work ethic. Here's a blurb that I use when somebody asks why I require dives with my nitrox class. BTW, many potential students do not take my class after reading this. I've met more than one after the quick class that they did take -- they got exactly what they paid for.

***********************
When folks are thinking about taking a nitrox class, the topic often turns to the question of whether training dives for nitrox are necessary. There’s always someone to advocate for doing it quicker, cheaper, and with fewer requirements. And some instructors advocate turning out more students, and spending less time teaching. (Maybe its because they don’t have much to teach?) I’m one of those old mossbacks who think its reasonable to include dives in a nitrox class. The nitrox class isn’t just about formulas and math calculations and you don’t need to dive if you just want to learn nitrox theory - heck, my calculator doesn't actually work under water, so you don’t need dives for that. And my inflator button works the same whether 21% or 40% EAN come out of my cylinder. But diving requires judgment calls, and nitrox diving requires additional judgments. We all know that there are cyber divers who can do the math and physics and pass multiple choice tests, but who do not make good decisions around (or under) water. I teach a fair amount of nitrox, always require two dives, and I have yet to end a class where the required dives did not result in some good learning.

Example: You've prepared a mix for an 85' dive. The dive boat gets to the site and there are two fishing boats tied in. Captain of the dive op scratches that site, and moves to a deeper wreck with a bottom of 135', but with the deck at 105’, the wheelhouse at 95' and some light structure starting at 60’. Experienced nitrox divers see the issues and opportunities right away for this dive, but would the person who just completed her on-line or classroom-only recognition class be fully prepared to adjust the dive plan? What a great opportunity for an instructor to seize this teachable moment and guide some decision-making judgment calls. How many ways could this dive plan be altered on the fly before jumping in the water? What risks would the new nitrox users face? Now throw in issues involving currents and a host of other un-planned contingencies... Your computer goes south – pull out the tables and dive anyway. Buy you’re using non-standard mixes (say, a 34% and a 40% EAN). Hmmm… time to use what you learned about equivalent air depth. These are all unplanned contingencies that a good instructor can introduce, and guide a new nitrox user through. (And yes, there are a lot of mix options other than 32%!)

I frequently use the required dives to help students learn other skills as well. This includes fine tuning buoyancy, making adjustments to weight belts (and thus lowering the diver’s workload and CO2 retention), and helping divers improve their air consumption. Longer bottom times are one benefit of nitrox, but only if a diver learns a breathing pattern that lowers his or her air consumption. We've also managed to sneak in a few new skills as well (deploying a blob, retrieving an anchor, mastering a different kick style, etc) even tho they have nothing to do with nitrox.

We sometimes forget that divers learn as they go - people aren't born with advanced dive skills. People will learn good and bad habits as they go. Instructors who are worth their spit should be trying to reduce the probability that people will learn bad habits. They should be helping people master new skills and knowledge related to nitrox, not just gain a general awareness of it. What better opportunity exists for teaching knowledge, good skills, habits, and judgments than by including training dives in the course? So ask your potential instructor what you’ll learn on nitrox training dives. If your instructor says its just a dive, find an instructor who actually has something to teach! But don’t skip the dives.
 
Nitrox doesn't need a checkout dive - it's the trimix that gets people into trouble. Too much helium and you float right out of the ocean, even with a steel backplate if you have low enough bodyfat....
 
ScubaSixString:
NAUI requires dives for nitrox (if i remember correctly)

The NAUI place near me offers the nitrox course both with and without the dives. You get a slightly different card if you take it without the dives, but they assure me I can still buy nitrox just the same with either... They said they offer the no dives option because they don't feel the dives contribute much to the course.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom