Horrible. Just Horrible...

[macrobubble]

[irony mode on]
What´s a couple of turtles and sharks, some fishing on local reefs and a few plastic bags in the water compared to the damage the proposed bridge between SA and Sharm will cause to the area.
So, keep on hunting and fishing as long as these creatures still exist here...
[irony mode off]

 

[String]

You mean the fairy tale bridge idea that'll never happen (i) for financial and (ii) for technical reasons.

 

[Oldbear]

[irony mode on]
What´s a couple of turtles and sharks, some fishing on local reefs and a few plastic bags in the water compared to the damage the proposed bridge between SA and Sharm will cause to the area.
So, keep on hunting and fishing as long as these creatures still exist here...
[irony mode off]

I think I understand what Macrobubble is trying to say...pick the lesser of two evil. In the case of a bridge or killing some of the aquatic life, killing the aquatic life will have a lesser overall impact on the ecosystem than the construction of the bridge. And that is probably true.

But I think what upsets people about this picture is not the macro-level impact to the ecosystem, but the individual loss of these animals and what most SBers think is senseless and unacceptable (myself included).

But where so you draw the line between acceptable losses and unacceptable losses...that question is one of the hardest to answer. For the people in the picture their beliefs were that killing a few sea turtles and sharks are acceptable; for many of the readers on SB even one turtle or shark is unacceptable.

The term CONSERVATION is defined as "wise use" of a natural resource. But the ambiguous part is who determines what "wise use" is? Based on my personal beliefs killing any animal for non-consumption is unwise; killing predators or keystone species (ones that are critical to the overall health of an ecosystem) for the sake of killing them is unwise; and over-fishing and over-hunting a species to the point that it cannot reproduce its population is unwise. But these values are my personal values. The person next to me might have different values that they believe to be truism.

The term PRESERVATION is easier to define as the non-use of a natural resource...do not touch, do not take, do not kill. Preservation actions are often the last hope a species has to survive. The good news is that many species worldwide have been saved from extinction through preservation type actions. Some can now be hunted or fished within conservational management systems. e.g. the American Alligator. The American alligator is a rare success story of an endangered animal not only saved from extinction but now thriving. State and federal protections, habitat preservation efforts, and reduced demand for alligator products have improved the species' wild population to more than one million and growing today.

But the sad reality is the American Alligator’s story is atypical worldwide for threatened and endangered wildlife. So when I see senseless killing of species that are threatened or endangered or any wildlife killed for the personal enjoyment of people (not to be confused with fishing or hunting of non-protected species for food or consumption), I am very saddened.

That is my 2¢ on the subject…

~Oldbear~

 

[macrobubble]

String, I pray to Allah, or God, or Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster that you are right!
But SA is pressing really hard for this damned thing and Morsi seems taken by the idea. Actually lately in the egyptian newspapers it was stated that they want to go forward with the project.

 

[vladimir]

Reponse from the operator. Admitting it happened, admitted they knew about it but chose not to bother informing the authorities hoping they'd get away with it.
"Extra incentives" for the crew so that'll be bribery in financial or indeed other services. Doesn't mention if the crew were sacked or not (i guess not). By "severe action" i'd guess its more likely "don't get caught doing that again. Hopefully nobody will notice".

The last one appears to blame jealous competitors for allowing the incident to become public.

FWIW i've seen this operator feeding sharks off safari boats far more recently than 2011....

It's also nice to see HEPCA actually taking action about things like this. They're the only organisation there i've got any respect for as they DO act. Contrast to CDWS who ignore, outright lie and coverup most incidents reported to them and to my knowledge have NEVER acted (other than to threaten a centre that reported day boats boats tying onto coral to them with closure). Well done HEPCA.

It says "Our management took immediate disciplinary action including: firing the crew and guides and banning the diving center."

 

[boulderjohn]

The crew was fired? Maybe.

Many decades ago I was on my honeymoon in a resort in the Caribbean. During dinner one evening, I happened to be looking in the right place at the right time to see every detail of an accident. A diner talking to someone else at the table turned in his chair, apparently starting to stand up, and accidentally put his foot out just as a waiter was passing by with a tray laden with dinners. The waiter tripped, and the food crashed to the floor. The manager arrived within seconds, and he fired the waiter on the spot. The diner protested vigorously that the incident was entirely his fault. He apologized profusely and begged the manager not to fire the waiter, but the deal was done. A good waiter, he was told, can and should be alert enough to avoid such problems. They only want the best waiters there, and he did not measure up.

A couple days later I happened to say something to a staff member about how distressing that was to see, since the incident was in my view unavoidable. The staff member smiled and assured me that the firing was a show to emphasize how high their standards of quality were. As soon as all the guests had finished their stay, the waiter would be back on the payroll.

 

[Oldbear]

So the firing could have just been a "Red Herring"? If family were involved very good chance of it.

 

[String]

String, I pray to Allah, or God, or Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster that you are right!
But SA is pressing really hard for this damned thing and Morsi seems taken by the idea. Actually lately in the egyptian newspapers it was stated that they want to go forward with the project.

It's been stated as going forward for the last decade that im aware of. Quite simply the technology and cost isn't there. It won't happen. Although Morsi seems to think he's the next step down from god he still cant change the laws of physics or technology of engineering.

They want to build one of the biggest bridges in the world in an area with incredibly deep water and incredibly unstable sand in any shallow bits with ferocious currents in an earthquake zone. As well as the fact the Egyptian economy has no money this bridge will connect Sinai (an isolated part of Egypt) to the western part of Saudi which has nothing there for the best part of 300 miles. If you live on the mainland or even Cairo its far quicker to get to the ports in the south and take a boat to the bigger cities! If you live in Sinai just get the ferry from Nuweiba.

There is no benefit spending 10s of billions on a bridge that might not even be possible to ferry people from one empty bit of sand to another.

Add on to that i can only begin to imagine how greedy the Bedouin will get with this bridge. They already charge such extortionate bribes (and recently doubled it) at the ferry ports, particularly Nuweiba that all car carrying and transport companies now so a 350km longer overland journey via Israel, Jordan and north sinai to avoid the 3hr crossing for economic reasons. With a bridge there they'd increase the cost per journey by 10x alone!

Egypt has a lot more to worry about than a pointless bridge, the recently reported 85% downturn in tourism for one and lack of security making it worse (another bedouin tourist kidnap today on the Taba to Nuweiba road, 2nd one this month).


Back to the original topic, i seriously doubt any firing took place. Most likely nothing at all happened at the time (its not unusual with russains) and only when this got public this year they had to make a statement claiming they'd acted at the time. I'd be amazed if there was actually any sanction placed on any of the people involved as its just not the way things are done there. Especially from questionable companies who have done similar before and after.