Horizontal Obsession

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I respectfully wholeheartedly disagree. See my post above. I am not attempting to reinvent the wheel here. GUE-Fundememtals or UTD Essentials classes are all about honing spot-on control. Should a diver show up for class with a console system the first action the instructor will take will be to replace with a loaner SPG and wrist mounted depth gauge....

True dat ... but it has more to do with the "holistic" approach to a systematic way of diving than it does the advantages/drawbacks of a particular piece of gear.

Replacing your console with a set of wrist gauges doesn't somehow improve your diving skills ... it simply makes it easier to fine-tune those skills for a particular style of diving. And you still have to acquire the skills first ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
It is my opinion newer divers have a more difficult time with controlling ascents due to their likely choice of a console mounted computer...
....Should they utilize a wrist mounted depth gauge frequent checks are very easy. With console systems the process of checking is much more involved as the diver must juggle the console and the exhaust hose with verticle ascents or the exhaust hose and the pressure release string on the BCD...
Wow, So unless a diver wears a wrist mounted depth gauge, they will have a difficult time ascending?
Doing a proper ascent is simply a skill and is not (wrist or console) gear dependent.
 
Wow, So unless a diver wears a wrist mounted depth gauge, they will have a difficult time ascending?
Doing a proper ascent is simply a skill and is not (wrist or console) gear dependent.

Actually I think what he's saying is that being able to monitor your depth changes by watching your computer makes the ascent easier to control (correct me if I've mistaken it here, Valhalla) ... which isn't at all what you just implied.

When you're new at it, he's right ... but (a) you can easily monitor a console-mounted computer if it's routed in a way that lets you do so without having to constantly fiddle with it, and (b) as you get better at making ascents, it becomes unnecessary to control your ascent rate by watching your computer ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Actually I think what he's saying is that being able to easily monitor your depth changes by watching your computer makes the ascent easier to control (correct me if I've mistaken it here, Valhalla) ... which isn't at all what you just implied.

When you're new at it, he's right ... but (a) you can easily monitor a console-mounted computer if it's configured in a way that lets you do so, and (b) as you get better at making ascents, it becomes unnecessary to control your ascent rate by watching your computer ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree with you but it is not just new divers that use consoles.

Like you said "(b) as you get better at making ascents, it becomes unnecessary to control your ascent rate by watching your computer ...".
 
True dat ... but it has more to do with the "holistic" approach to a systematic way of diving than it does the advantages/drawbacks of a particular piece of gear.

You have vastly more experience than myself but I still very much disagree. Wrist mount depth gauges/computers are the go-to selections for most all training agencies when advancing beyond the realm of wholly recreational diving. GUE, UTD, TDI, IANTD all advocate/mandate wrist mount models not for style points but due simply for their more effecient functionality...

Replacing your console with a set of wrist gauges doesn't somehow improve your diving skills ... it simply makes it easier to fine-tune those skills for a particular style of diving. And you still have to acquire the skills first....

Agreed. However, wrist gauges requires one simply to raise their arm a few inches in order to read. Consoles? A more involved process thus less desirable regardless of performing rec or tec dives. I am surprised folks are recomending retactable entanglement hazards on the board. I am not talking cave line either...
 
Like you said "(b) as you get better at making ascents, it becomes unnecessary to control your ascent rate by watching your computer ...".

How do you know when you have reached the depth of all your stops including the universally practiced safety stop? You definately have skills that most of the rest of us lack...All in good fun!
 
I respectfully wholeheartedly disagree. See my post above. I am not attempting to reinvent the wheel here. GUE-Fundememtals or UTD Essentials classes are all about honing spot-on control. Should a diver show up for class with a console system the first action the instructor will take will be to replace with a loaner SPG and wrist mounted depth gauge....

Respectfully, you opened with, "It is my opinion".

If want to attribute your statement to citing agency dogma that's a different response.

McDonald's is the poster child for standardization and it certainly has it's good points and bad points.

Pete
 
You have vastly more experience than myself but I still very much disagree. Wrist mount depth gauges/computers are the go-to selections for most all training agencies when advancing beyond the realm of wholly recreational diving. GUE, UTD, TDI, IANTD all advocate/mandate wrist mount models not for style points but due simply for their more effecient functionality...
For technical diving it has more to do with streamlining and reducing gear that can entrap or entangle the diver.

Consoles simply aren't the right tool for that type of diving ... but it has little to do with how easily they can be monitored (right idea, wrong reason) ... on a tech dive, I rarely monitor my depth except on ascent ... and only then because I am doing deco stops at precise depths. For the recreational diver, that particular need doesn't exist.

Agreed. However, wrist gauges requires one simply to raise their arm a few inches in order to read. Consoles? A more involved process thus less desirable regardless of performing rec or tec dives. I am surprised folks are recomending retactable entanglement hazards on the board. I am not talking cave line either...
See my first post regarding how I routed my console back when I used one ... I've seen lots of folks doing similar things.

Entanglement hazards are rarely a concern for the recreational diver ... unless they're diving regularly in a kelp forest.

I'm not suggesting that wrist computers are less preferable ... clearly ... I have been using them for years, and would never consider going back to a console. But my diving needs are not the same as someone who does open ocean or reef dives at a purely recreational level. While you make a valid point that wrist gauges are easier, it simply is not the reason why some divers have difficulty with their ascents ... a change of gear won't improve your skills, and making controlled ascents is a skills issue.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
When I used to teach open water divers (in locations where we were doing drift dives and had no up or down line) I would get them to do the following: I did not mention a horizontal attitude at all.

My students generally learned very quickly to control ascents by doing what I said. I explained that I did NOT want them to be neutral, I wanted them to be negatively bouyant for the entire ascent.

The overall goal is to keep the students just SLIGHTLY negatively bouyant during most or all of the ascent. I tried to explain that the student was to use the most gentle kicking and small dumps in air. Keeping the students vertical allows them to easily see particles in the water, allows them to kick upward to maintain a very slow ascent and it is easier to sense an upward motion if you are vertical rather than horizontal.

When you want to go up, you simply start to swim up. Take a kick or two and stop and look at the particles in the water. If after you have exhaled, and you are sinking a little, then take another kick or two and exhaled for a moment and check. If you feel that you are starting to float up without kicking, then dump some air from the Bc and again look at the particles (and computer) and then start gently kicking. The key was not to allow yourself to float up, but to kick ever so gently. The second you screw up and sense that you are actively floating up, just dump some air and stop kicking. If the new diver can keep themselves always on the slightly negative side of the equation during the ascent it is much less likely to have an accident and runaway ascent. If you try to teach students to keep their face down and be perfectly neutral, this is much harder and because of the bouyancy of expanding air and wetsuit, makes the system an unstable equilibrium, it is much harder to do for the new diver.

Also, you have to consider what the horizontal diver needs to do if they dump too much air. Now they are (slowly) sinking and are negatively bouyant and the ONLY thing that will work now is to ADD AIR. If they do it too much, then you get the yo-yo ascent/descent cycle that is very disorienting and potentially dangerous. If the diver is in a vertical position and accidentally dumps too much air, they are in a position that a few gentle kicks will re-establish the ascent and they can potentially avoid adding ANY AIR to the BC on ascent. (This is an important distinnction in my opinion) If we can make it more likely that the student/new diver doesn't need to ADD AIR ON ASCENT then we are more likely to keep things in better control. (Not to mention it is easier to dump air from a BC in a verical position, for students/new divers that often have not mastered the rear dump.)

Of course, I would teach them to roll onto their back and flair out if things got out of control or they lost weights or something, but a horizontal ascent is not what i recommend for most recreational divers.

As a side note, I would explain to my students that they can continue to practice ascents and try to use less and less kicking (which means they do an ascent closer and closer to the neutral point).

Also recommending a horizontal ascent, requires that the diver do a bouyant ascent (or obviously they wouldn't go up) and recommending that new divers make bouyant ascents doesn't sound like such a good idea to me.

For myself, if students were not watching I will do a bouyant ascent and can control the positive bouayncy to keep it so minimal that it requires no kicking just breath control and fin drag, but this is not something I ever taught.

Staying ever so slightly negative on ascent is safer than staying ever so slightly positive, therefore I feel that a vertical is best for most recreational divers.
 
How do you know when you have reached the depth of all your stops including the universally practiced safety stop? You definately have skills that most of the rest of us lack...All in good fun!
You know I love my analogies:

Which carpenter has more skill?
A carpenter that can drive a 16d nail home in two pops with a finish (smooth faced) hammer. Or, the carpenter that can do the same with a framing hammer. Sure, the framing hammer makes it easier but does that diminish the skill of the guy that can do it with a finish hammer?
 

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