Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

[Bonairetrip]

So would you be offended if I asked to see your certification card, after all I shouldn't just take your word on the fact that your a DM should I?

That would be a donkey move -- it also is sort of pointless (as dumpsterdiver explained). I would also add that every reputable shop or charter requires the DM card be presented prior to employment.

---------- Post added December 28th, 2012 at 10:06 PM ----------

You reserve the right to ask me and I would be happy to oblige just as you would be asked to verify that you are appropriately certified for the planned diving.

If you ask nicely not to touch your gear ahead of time, not a problem. I certainly will not. Does this include not touching your spear gun when you are getting out of the water? How about your fins or camera? At what point would you expect that we would assist you? What is acceptable to you?

If you are traveling and you are renting our tanks, whose tanks am I checking? Yours or ours? If they are ours, chances are that I did the VIP and rebuilt the valve you don't want me to touch.

Are you going to load your tanks on and off the boat by yourself?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This also strikes me as a bit of donkey response. If someone asks for help with something (be it the captain with the lines or a diver who is handing up fins) I think it is pretty clear that the touching is OK. To pretend otherwise is just being both difficult and silly.

The fact that you VIPed the tanks is neither here nor there -- but I suspect you know that already.

 

[wjeiii]

I'm on both sides of this. As a diver I take care of my gear when on a vacation where DM's carry & set up gear I let them do the "Heavy Lifting" and only check the results if they show a willingness to Learn my system, final check is still mine. As an instructor and Boat DM (A Job you hired me for with the dive op) I have a responsibility to look out after you. Where I work in the Great Lakes I won't set up your gear, but will help with checks and will ask and or check if your gas is on before you leave my boat. The reason for this is I dislike going in to drag you back to the surface.

 

[waterpirate]

This topic is a lot more complex than it appears. I would ask that the " role " of the DM has to be defined. It varies wildly from boat to boat, and by location geographicaly. If you are on holiday the DM.s role by nature is to be the nanny to people on holiday, who may only dive on holiday. On tech charters or here in the mid atlantic, the DM's role is more of 1st mate, and that of a helping hand when requested.

People who have spent a lot of time on the water know who has not. I can spot them in minutes. That being said, in your other post you stated the DM was lacking in basic boatmanship. That comes with time, but does not, or should not reflect on his willingness to be helpfull and mindfull of the capt. and passengers.

I have years on the water, yet never had the urge to be a DM. However I am a helping gentle soul, and have a knack for helping, guideing, nudgeing people in a positive direction on boats. whether it is helping the DM try and sort out a charlie foxtrot, giving help to the capt. or asking a rube, " hey skippy? do you want to wear that weight belt under the bench or do you just lug it around to look cool?".

In any event dive boats and your LDS are a business. They do not exist for our amusement, and the customer is NOT allways rigt.
Eric

 

[Herb-alaska]

Thanks for the opinions folks

i can say that I was not argumentative until I got home second this was not a case of a new DM as he was at least 65 ( I am not young either 48) the only way I demonstrated that I was not happy was my avoidance of a tip and I will always say that a tip is optional and earned. And in my book it does not take much for me to feel you earned it but this time. No

i would say that you all appear to feel that because I got on your boat you have the right or responsibility to do what ever you feel you must do and call it safety

so I will respectively comply and just have this conversation before I pay and before I get on the boat
if there is not a shop that I can agree with no problem ill stay home with my own boat and dive

Shops please remember that as you feel customers have responsibilities you also have a responsibility to make sure your people are competent in real life as well as on paper . You should feel it is a bit of quality control and check things out when a customer comes back and either and says thank you had a great time or hey we had a problem. It appears that some shops have the screw them attitude they aren't ever coming back no matter what happens anyway attitude

 

[Rich Keller]

Oh good, another diver who is positive that they know it all! I was starting to worry that we might be running short of those.

 

[Herb-alaska]

Oh good, another diver who is positive that they know it all! I was starting to worry that we might be running short of those.

I never said or implied that rich. What I said was I know more about my gear than he did and that because I was diving it I would appreciate him leaving it alone

 

[Rich Keller]

Herb, you are making a big deal over a small issue, just recheck your gear when they are done and get on with the dive.

 

[Diver0001]

this is a real question I am not trying to be a donkey about this I want your opinion

thank you

My opinion from reading this and the other thread is that you're responding with hostility/aggression to sincere attempts by the dive leaders to be helpful and assist you in having a pleasant and safe experience.

The real question to me is why do you do this? Next time, just say to the DM, "thanks for the help but I'd prefer to do this alone". You may still encounter the odd head-strong one but judging from what you're posting you can relate to "head-strong".

As for your question of whether or not it is a "responsibility".... not purely. It's the dive team's responsibility to manage risks and see to it that safety concerns are addressed. I guess some DM's see double checking things as one way to be sure of that.

Question for you... did you do a thorough buddy check before the DM tried to help you?

R..

 

[Dr Dog]

As a diver who "HAS" forgotten to turn on valve.

I am grateful for someone else to check.. It is redundancy, and it is what I practice in the water.

The group I dive with, the DM's that come out, are mainly concerned with the people they have not dove with before. I have never had one check my gear.. That is what my buddy does. BWRAF

But if one other competent experienced diver wants to ensure my air supply is on...I say go ahead, especially on a boat in unfamiliar waters

 

[HowardE]

So in another thread the general consensus from the DM folks out there was that I was a xx for not wanting a DM to touch adjust or mess with my gear Ok I can accept that as your opinion

so when I come in and book a trip you want to see my c-card and rightfully so because you don't know me and you want to protect yourself and ensure that I have the training and skill to do the dive. You never want to just take my word for it and rightfully so.

so with that in mind you also feel it is your responsibility to check , adjust or touch my gear right before i go in the water I may be able to accept that if I know you have the training and skill to do the job. So would you be offended if I asked to see your certification card, after all I shouldn't just take your word on the fact that your a DM should I?

if you demand to have the ability to do something to my gear that I asked you not to do shouldn't I verify that you are trained to have an opinion ?

until now I have never thought this would be an issue. If I was around folks that did not instill trust in their skills I avoided them and did it myself in fact almost all the DM s that I have encountered have been very good hardworking people that knew scuba and were interested in keeping everyone safe but when I encounter one that gives my pause should I not have the option of saying no thanks I have it with out making it a 10 page thread big deal

this is a real question I am not trying to be a donkey about this I want your opinion

thank you

Hi,

I read your other thread, and now this one...

I'm an Instructor, DM, Boat Captain, and Professional Diver. I make my living off of diving. I dive virtually all dive systems available, like rebreathers, hard hat, open circuit, full face mask. I work as a professional salvage diver, and find old shipwrecks as well. Basically, I'm in the water a few hundred times a year...

Me personally, I prefer that nobody touches my gear. If I'm on a dive boat with a rebreather... they don't touch it. Why? Because they don't know what it is most of the time.

If I'm on a dive boat with doubles, they don't touch. Why? Because it's "technical gear" and it has a special configuration.

If I'm on a boat and diving single tank, I prefer that people don't touch my gear, but I'm not going to be a jerk about it. Why? Because there's something called RESPECT for the crew. Let them do their job. DM's and Boat Captains deal with MUCH MORE than you think, and people who dive recreationally are more often than not people who need to be checked. People jump in all the time with tanks off. People make all kinds of mistakes. Just yesterday, I witnessed a woman set up her regulator backwards. Opens the tank valve to check... air comes rushing out... she turns off the valve, and is content and ready to go. I alerted the BOAT DM (as I was just a passenger) and he remedied the situation, without the woman throwing attitude. Actually she was happy.

Obviously, you have some kind of attitude. Your thread now is to demand to see the cards of the DM's? Really? Do you think any sensible boat would hire a non-professional to work their boat? Someone without professional liability insurance that DM's MUST HAVE to work? Seriously?

I hate to say that your attitude sucks. But it does. There are lots of people like you who get on the boats and throw attitude, and quite frankly, people like me who run the boat, DM, or teach off of boats have to deal with a lot... So I would suggest you take it down a notch, and relax, or maybe you should take up shore diving or maybe tennis.

Recreational Diving is supposed to be fun... Try to have some. Let people who work for a living do their thing. They probably do know more than you.

No disrespect meant... just honest here...

Thanks.