Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

[Herb-alaska]

Cool thing about this place is that we can get others opinions in a setting where it really doesn't matter if you think I am an "a" or I think you are because Likely we will never dive together or see each other

i really do come here bounce ideas and thoughts and if you think I am an "a" that's ok I can live with it
This place should welcome a free exchange of opinions

 

[Diver0001]

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I'll say that my first impression was that you got hostile with him. You said after that that you didn't say much of anything and "got even" with him for irritating you by withholding the tip.

Either way, that's not how I would personally go about things. I'd tend to be more up front about my feelings but I'm pretty sociable with people and I can appreciate that not everyone is wired like that. Personally I didn't see anything in what you wrote that should earn you an "a" sticker. For my part, I'm not that black-and-white.

People have different ways of dealing with things. Maybe the take home message could be to try talking to the DM next time instead of holding it in and getting even later. I don't know if that suits your personality or not, but it's obvious to me that it bothered you so getting it in the open might help you have less of a "hangover" from it next time.

R..

 

[idive2]

It's been my observation that on many dives particularly the slightly deeper guided drift dives that for
every diver that should be there there are an almost equal number that should not. I guess from the standpoint of
the charter it is better to catch those that should not be there before they screw up than to worry about ruffling the
feathers of those that will most likely not screw up.

 

[TSandM]

Having been "raised" in the PNW (from a diving perspective, anyway), I guess I'm lucky. I don't expect much of anything from the DMs on the boat. If it's a boat where you have to put your fins on before you get to the gate, a little help with the fins is sometimes very nice. I like to hand my fins and camera up before I climb back on board. A hand with stability, if the boat is pitching, is nice, too. You don't have to know very much to do those things.

But I do expect, when I pay for a charter, that the people running the boat know how to run a boat properly and safely. I also expect them to know the sites and times, and get me to where I will enjoy diving at a time when the diving can be enjoyed. When I have been on a boat where things didn't look as though they were being done professionally, it has NOT given me a warm fuzzy feeling.

The OP's first thread was about something that would have annoyed me briefly and I would then have forgotten. But this one, about someone who doesn't know how to handle a boat, would bother me.

 

[Herb-alaska]

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I'll say that my first impression was that you got hostile with him. You said after that that you didn't say much of anything and "got even" with him for irritating you by withholding the tip.

Either way, that's not how I would personally go about things. I'd tend to be more up front about my feelings but I'm pretty sociable with people and I can appreciate that not everyone is wired like that. Personally I didn't see anything in what you wrote that should earn you an "a" sticker. For my part, I'm not that black-and-white.

People have different ways of dealing with things. Maybe the take home message could be to try talking to the DM next time instead of holding it in and getting even later. I don't know if that suits your personality or not, but it's obvious to me that it bothered you so getting it in the open might help you have less of a "hangover" from it next time.

R..

Good advice unfortunately it's not the way I'm wired generally I try not to make waves and I vote with my feet / $ and for me to say no thank you followed by a please don't do that is equal to a yelling jumping up and down cursing fit and by bringing it here all I really wanted to do at the start was say hey DMs please listen and respect the one that is not a in your face type of customer

Then when the lynch mob came out and then I admittedly got pissed but hey better here than on the boat right ?

 

[Rich Keller]

I think you need to size up the boat and crew the same way they have to size you up. These cards do not mean much from either side of that process.

 

[Mike2Fst]

Jar if I had issue with you ensuring the safety of your boat , crew and other divers by verifying items like spear guns are safe I should not be allowed on your boat. All I simply asked was please don't touch my valve which I would be the only one affected if I screwed up. And yes I have always carried all my own gear to include my tanks weights etc. my issue was before I splash I was not 100 % sure he was not going to turn my already on tank off. And I am always polite (direct sometimes but I say please and thank you) except maybe when irritated on the Internet. My concern was because he described a side mount rig that he had on board last week to me in conversation and had no idea what it was, he did not understand that routing my primary 48 inch hose under my arm and up was a acceptable option, he was unable to launch a 22 foot boat and spent an inordinate amount of time talking about how he was DM. In general he was not familiar with gear other than the what he was accustomed to seeing and I was not comfortable with him.

Let me understand this. If you demand that your valve be not checked (??????), and it is closed as you leave the boat with a resulting quick descent, you are the only one effected? Let's see, someone has to find and drag your self centered butt up off the bottom, all divers are recalled so you can be transported to the appropriate medical services, hhmmmmmmm, not buying that no one else will be effected. Unless of course your sooo cool in an unplanned event and have awesome flexibility to reach over and turn your valve on coupled with the ability to clear your ears at an ascent rate of maybe 100ft/min. Maybe you could shoot a video of this skill, which of course has been planned so reaction time is greatly reduced. I'm one for awarding you an honorary PITA diver certification which may limit your diving options if displayed too proudly. I dive my recreational rig infrequently enough to be paranoid about whether or not I do have my valve open and ask the DM to check it for I leave the boat, a down side to Tech certs and experience is that DMs usually steer clear regardless of which configuration you may be diving. Recommendation if it's only a valve check would be to say thanks. I'm big on valve checking and have prevented many mishaps by those who have been ready to jump in, valve closed.

 

[Herb-alaska]

Let me understand this. If you demand that your valve be not checked (??????), and it is closed as you leave the boat with a resulting quick descent, you are the only one effected? Let's see, someone has to find and drag your self centered butt up off the bottom, all divers are recalled so you can be transported to the appropriate medical services, hhmmmmmmm, not buying that no one else will be effected. Unless of course your sooo cool in an unplanned event and have awesome flexibility to reach over and turn your valve on coupled with the ability to clear your ears at an ascent rate of maybe 100ft/min. Maybe you could shoot a video of this skill, which of course has been planned so reaction time is greatly reduced. I'm one for awarding you an honorary PITA diver certification which may limit your diving options if displayed too proudly. I dive my recreational rig infrequently enough to be paranoid about whether or not I do have my valve open and ask the DM to check it for I leave the boat, a down side to Tech certs and experience is that DMs usually steer clear regardless of which configuration you may be diving. Recommendation if it's only a valve check would be to say thanks. I'm big on valve checking and have prevented many mishaps by those who have been ready to jump in, valve closed.

Actually Mike I would have been the only one affected because like I said somewhere in the first thread if I had screwed up and entered the water with my air off I would have simply stood up it was a river drift dive with a max depth of 21 feet and an average depth of five feet and I stand 6'2"

I understand all of the residual consequence of a fatal mistake as well as the team approach that a DM should be a part of because I am a PSD who depends on my tender but that is because I trust my tender with my life and I did not trust this DM and because of that I asked him to forgo a fourth valve check when he refused I saw no need to tip him. He did his valve check I did a fifth check and no harsh words were shared until I arrived at SB

sorry but I really don't care if you agree.

 

[waterpirate]

Cool thing about this place is that we can get others opinions in a setting where it really doesn't matter if you think I am an "a" or I think you are because Likely we will never dive together or see each other

Be carefull of Romans bearing gifts?? I got on a boat last year and through talking to the mate we found each other out. He says " You are the waterpirate?" I respond yes " He says " Get off this boat and causes a scene" It was quite a show for the other pasengers, and quite a tounge in cheek comedy. I had a great trip that day with someone I had only argued with on this board.
Eric

 

[CaliDenna]

Not commenting on the should he should he not have touched it as everyone I think has addressed it quite well but a comment of the "voting with tips". Generally tips for occupational examples such as waitresses, hair dressers, valets, etc. can be seen as an immediate barometer of good service or not. However, in this situation I think the better way to bring forth your concerns of a sub par performance would have been to discuss it after the trip with the captain and the shop or boat charter. They may not be aware that there is a problem and thus unable to correct it so that others do not encounter a situation.

My profession is in Call Center Management. When I've taken escalated manager calls from customers that had been upset by agents'/supervisors' performance many of the customers would apologize that they requested a manager but they were so upset. I would always reassure them that I WANT those calls and I do. That while we do quality control we don't hear/see every call and that I don't know if an agent/supervisor is necessarily lacking in skills or struggling on how to remain professional when just having a bad day. I need to know so that I can coach the agent appropriately whether it's additional training (which the DM may have needed), more mentoring, or whatever the gap may be not to "get them in trouble".

I do the same thing when I'm out. If someone does not perform the job they are supposed to be doing to my satisfaction and I have concerns over it, I will go speak nicely to a manager and tell them it looks like so and so is struggling with this or is demonstrating a really poor attitude etc.

Withholding a tip does affect him in taking a hit to his income but I'm betting that he won't see it as oh crap I should not have touched his gear, I better never do that again. He more than likely is going to think you are just a cheap SOB touristy diver, blah blah blah and go on doing what he is doing.

When I was first starting out in Call Center Management I had a director who once summed up coaching people like this and I love it, it always pops in my head......"Pigs don't know pigs stink"