Honest question for you dive masters instructors out there

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As a diver who "HAS" forgotten to turn on valve.

I am grateful for someone else to check.. It is redundancy, and it is what I practice in the water.

That's my attitude too. I'm happy if someone wants to help me and anyone, no matter how competent can forget something. I've attached drysuit inflators and turned on tanks during the descent and recently had to untangle my hose and do the s-drill again once we were on the bottom... Completely avoidable and potentially hazardous... the whole idea of the buddy check is to avoid problems so I don't see why someone would feel that another diver was out of line for checking.

That said, I do double check my valves if someone has been turning them. Double check the double check. Nothing wrong with that either and it only takes a moment.

R..

---------- Post added December 29th, 2012 at 02:45 PM ----------

On a bit of a tangent to this thread, I have a story:

I once had a diver for a "guided dive day", which is something that we ran through the shop so divers could network with potential buddies and enjoy a nice day of shore diving together.

This diver didn't know me so he didn't know that in addition to a "lowly" PADI pro I was also an experienced technical diver.

So he comes in to the briefing and I sent around a paper to get everyone's name, telephone number and certification details and he writes on the sheet "technical diver" and declined to fill in the number of dives he had. I quizzed him about it and he claimed that he had done a PADI Tec-40 specialty so I figured he had at least 30 dives. I really should have asked to see his card though because later in the day I was pretty sure he hadn't.

I started getting doubts when we got to the site and he put on a jacket that said "INSTRUCTOR" in big letters across the back. I asked him if he was an instructor and he said, "no, this is just to attract chicks".

His T-shirt also said "instructor" on it. His gear consisted of a twin AL-80 setup that looked to be a pretty good approximation of a DIR rig and he mentioned that he was "going DIR". In the Netherlands, however, the only "official" DIR config for light technical diving is a twin 12L steel setup. The DIR crowd have an allergy for the twin AL-80 setup because of balance issues. So I asked him about that. He said, "yeah, I know but the bigger tanks make me look like more of a man".

I thought it was a joke but he was serious.

This, combined with the "instructor" jacket started giving me alarm bells. When we got geared up I saw that he didn't do a buddy check so I went to ask about that. He said he had to skip the buddy check because his buddy "couldn't understand his gear". So I said I would do it. He said to me, "I'm sure you've never seen gear like this either", to which my response was, "you would be surprised the kind of things I see" (which was actually a carefully camouflaged comment about him, not his gear). He conceded, we finished the safety check and then headed to the water.

After a short swim out to where we would descend I got everyone buddied up and we descended to the bottom where we would get organized and buddies who weren't diving with me would go their separate ways. Once on the bottom, however, the first thing I needed to do is to help "Mr Tecrec-40/DIR/Instructor" get "unturtled" because he lost it during the descent and was firmly planted with his gigantic AL-80's in the mud. LOL. It was everything I could do not not laugh out loud.

So yeah, there's more to this story about what happened on the surface interval but the point I was trying to make is that someone having "attitude" does not always mean that they know what they're doing.

R..
 
Actually Howard my " demand " to see c cards was intended to be tongue in cheek reference to dive shops rightfully requiring a diver to be equal the dive the same way I would like to have a DM equal to the position and respect ascribed to the position of dive master. I really am not the "a" that you all think I am. I was simply irritated because I was respectful ( and I truly was ) and did not feel that it was returned so I voted with my tip ( the only way I did also ) on here it seems that the DM is right no regardless.
 
Actually Howard my " demand " to see c cards was intended to be tongue in cheek reference to dive shops rightfully requiring a diver to be equal the dive the same way I would like to have a DM equal to the position and respect ascribed to the position of dive master. I really am not the "a" that you all think I am. I was simply irritated because I was respectful ( and I truly was ) and did not feel that it was returned so I voted with my tip ( the only way I did also ) on here it seems that the DM is right no regardless.

If you were not satisfied don't use that boat again,it is that simple.
 
Actually Howard my " demand " to see c cards was intended to be tongue in cheek reference to dive shops rightfully requiring a diver to be equal the dive the same way I would like to have a DM equal to the position and respect ascribed to the position of dive master. I really am not the "a" that you all think I am. I was simply irritated because I was respectful ( and I truly was ) and did not feel that it was returned so I voted with my tip ( the only way I did also ) on here it seems that the DM is right no regardless.

I'm still curious : Did you do a through buddy check before the DM came to double check you?

R..
 
Actually Howard my " demand " to see c cards was intended to be tongue in cheek reference to dive shops rightfully requiring a diver to be equal the dive the same way I would like to have a DM equal to the position and respect ascribed to the position of dive master. I really am not the "a" that you all think I am. I was simply irritated because I was respectful ( and I truly was ) and did not feel that it was returned so I voted with my tip ( the only way I did also ) on here it seems that the DM is right no regardless.

Maybe on here, you're getting more opinions than your own.

It's not that the DM is always right, but neither is the customer.

Not tipping some DM because they treated you like other divers, and didn't know who you were and how experienced you are? That's the point. I don't know if you get it.
 
Obviously, you have some kind of attitude. Your thread now is to demand to see the cards of the DM's? Really? Do you think any sensible boat would hire a non-professional to work their boat? Someone without professional liability insurance that DM's MUST HAVE to work? Seriously?

I hate to say that your attitude sucks. But it does. There are lots of people like you who get on the boats and throw attitude, and quite frankly, people like me who run the boat, DM, or teach off of boats have to deal with a lot... So I would suggest you take it down a notch, and relax, or maybe you should take up shore diving or maybe tennis.

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but I sure didn't see it this way. OP got on a boat. Boat crew (be he DM, Deckhand, Captain's son, whatever) didn't appear to be boat savvy, maybe a volunteer from the shop who has done this 2 or 3 times before (Who of us haven't crewed for free just to get a trip????). OP gets a hinky feeling from the DM and gives the DM the hairy eyeball. DM gets his back up and presents attitude, which escalates to both parties showing their a$$. OP comes here and says "what do you guys think?"

I don't think that the OP has a bad attitude, I think he asked 2 legitimate questions to which he got more answer he could ever have expected, because both questions led directly to a can of worms.

When dealing with 20 divers a day, it's kind of like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. You might get Roturners "instructor" because he's after chicks, you might get Waterpirate with the sun faded wing and the pony strapped to his main cylinder. You might end up with HowardE who has just completed 22 days in a row of full boat turnarounds and his new wife is mad at him for taking the boat out for the night dive tonight, you might get me on one of those days where I love my job and the checking account is so full you couldn't fit another dollar in. Your DM might be PMSing, both figuratively and literally. None of us can tell a whole lot about what we see on the surface, and sometimes scratching a little bit brings up things we'd rather not have seen. We react to those stimuli and increasingly, not in a nice way. Then we talk about it on the internet where facial expression and body language can't temper our written word and what spews forth is not what we intended. I should know, for I am the king of podalic-oral interface on this board.

Give Herb a break.
 
OP gets a hinky feeling from the DM and gives the DM the hairy eyeball. DM gets his back up and presents attitude, which escalates to both parties showing their a$$.

LOL, oh God, Frank. I hope you said that with a thick southern accent too. That's hysterical. :rofl3:

Maybe you're right. It could well be one of those "you had to be there" things.

R..
 
The OP is tad caustic in his posting, but I think within his rights.

I often showed my Instructor card at the beginning of courses (when I could find the damn thing!)

A DM should Identify himself/herself properly, a neck lanyard with their DM card would be a good idea so customers can see it when the customers are boarding. Or the very least have it on hand if a customer does ask.
 
Actually Diver0001 I was not explicit in my post so I will be now. Yes we did buddy checks. Yes I breathed off primary and secondary yes I inflated my wing yes I checked all my buckles and yes I checked and my son in law checked me all while we stood 3 feet from the DM
 
Actually Diver0001 I was not explicit in my post so I will be now. Yes we did buddy checks. Yes I breathed off primary and secondary yes I inflated my wing yes I checked all my buckles and yes I checked and my son in law checked me all while we stood 3 feet from the DM

Thanks. In that case I would ordinarily expect the DM to see that and only chime in if they saw something that was a potential safety concern.

I guess you just got a bit of a "busybody".

R..
 
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