Hollis F1 Bat Fins 'bad' for surface swims?

[SDJustin]

I just purchased a DUI dry suit with rock boots. As such, I needed larger fins as the foot pocket was too small for size 11 rock boots in my 20 year old Mares Avanti Quattro fins (size regular).

After reading this forum, the Hollis F1 Bat Fins came highly recommended, so I purchased a size XL which fit perfectly. I immediately noticed they are MUCH heavier than my Mares fins, and are more 'rubbery' than 'plasticky.' I love the spring straps, I got the yellow tips so my buddies can see me at the sometimes low viz La Jolla Shores conditions, and I was excited to get out there and give them a try.

In my dry suit class (La Jolla Shores, San Diego, CA, USA) I was the slowest surface swimmer in the 9 student class. Usually, with my normal 5 mil wetsuit and 24 lbs of weight and a steel HP100 tank, I easily keep up / out pace my buddies. I tried both the 'snorkel' position and the face up position...while snorkeling, looking at the sand below, it seemed that no matter how powerful I kicked I was barely moving (flutter kicks).

Some other data:
- New to dry suits, was literally my first and second open water dry suit dives
- Also tried a DUI weight and trim harness, with 28lbs of weight + DUI actionwear pro 150 jumpsuit (not sure I liked the harness).
- Other gear was the same as usual.

The boards and even sales people at my local shop were saying I needed 'tech fins' like this to have enough power to push the dry suit, but the other divers with the split fins and scuba pro nova's and such were definitely out swimming me. Most of then were in ScubaPro ExoDry neoprene wetsuits which are probably a bit more streamlined.

I'm thinking of just going with an XL Mares Avanti Quattro set, or maybe the Scuba Pro SeaWing Nova or Twin Jet Max.

Help/advice?

 

[JohnN]

I just purchased a DUI dry suit with rock boots. As such, I needed larger fins as the foot pocket was too small for size 11 rock boots in my 20 year old Mares Avanti Quattro fins (size regular).

After reading this forum, the Hollis F1 Bat Fins came highly recommended, so I purchased a size XL which fit perfectly. I immediately noticed they are MUCH heavier than my Mares fins, and are more 'rubbery' than 'plasticky.' I love the spring straps, I got the yellow tips so my buddies can see me at the sometimes low viz La Jolla Shores conditions, and I was excited to get out there and give them a try.

In my dry suit class (La Jolla Shores, San Diego, CA, USA) I was the slowest surface swimmer in the 9 student class. Usually, with my normal 5 mil wetsuit and 24 lbs of weight and a steel HP100 tank, I easily keep up / out pace my buddies. I tried both the 'snorkel' position and the face up position...while snorkeling, looking at the sand below, it seemed that no matter how powerful I kicked I was barely moving (flutter kicks).

Some other data:
- New to dry suits, was literally my first and second open water dry suit dives
- Also tried a DUI weight and trim harness, with 28lbs of weight + DUI actionwear pro 150 jumpsuit (not sure I liked the harness).
- Other gear was the same as usual.

The boards and even sales people at my local shop were saying I needed 'tech fins' like this to have enough power to push the dry suit, but the other divers with the split fins and scuba pro nova's and such were definitely out swimming me. Most of then were in ScubaPro ExoDry neoprene wetsuits which are probably a bit more streamlined.

I'm thinking of just going with an XL Mares Avanti Quattro set, or maybe the Scuba Pro SeaWing Nova or Twin Jet Max.

Help/advice?

Were the other students also in drysuits?

It's not fair to compare yourself to them if you're not all similarly attired.

 

[SDJustin]

Were the other students also in drysuits?
It's not fair to compare yourself to them if you're not all similarly attired.

Yeah, they were all in drysuits, although out of the 9 students, I think 3 had membrane style like me, the other 6 were diving the scuba pro neoprene style drysuits (more streamlined than my DUI TLS 350).

 

[CptTightPants21]

Perhaps it was your swim technique or difference in leg strength?

 

[runsongas]

how fast are you kicking? are you using your quads when kicking with the f1?

 

[SDJustin]

Yeah, they were all in drysuits, although out of the 9 students, I think 3 had membrane styles like me, the other 6 were diving the scuba pro neoprene style drysuits (more streamlined than my DUI TLS 350).

That's sort of my question. For surface swims in particular, it's the basic flutter kick right? Or is there some different finning technique that divers with heavier 'tech' style fins like the F1 use for surface swims? Or is the fin just better/specialized for the 'tech, knee bent up' position w/ frog kicks and not as fast as the more recreational stuff for surface swimming?

It COULD be the other 8 students were just stronger/fitter than me, but I usually dive with a fit 23 year old and keep up with him no problem.

 

[SDJustin]

how fast are you kicking? are you using your quads when kicking with the f1?

Long, slow, powerful (or at least feels powerful to my muscles) kicks. Definitely using my quads. Is that correct?

 

[runsongas]

are you kicking slower than you do with quattros? also, do you feel the f1 blade twisting on you during the kick?

 

[tcphil]

I have the F1s and other fins, including Apollo Bio Fins - split fins. The F1s are great for maneuverability and multiple kick styles. They are my go to fin for most dives because of that control on a reef or wall with dry suit on. Once you use them a while, you can also increase surface speed particularly on your back. HOWEVER, there are other fins that are more efficient for surface and general forward speed. While it may be counter intuitive, when in heavy current and I am not too worried about close up control, the more flexible, efficient bio fins are much better. A good example is the Columbia River in spring. It hauls. F1s just tire me out quickly. Apollo's are "floppy" but total distance moved per level of effort is much greater. Other fins I have used/tried over the years seem to fall between these extremes.

When using F1s on the surface on my back, generally do not use real long strokes because long strokes will cause the foot moving up to more breach the surface, which does't help. Stroke just deep enough to keep moving through the water at a good pace. These are powerful paddles - don't over push them. Just finished another 5 dives this weekend in Puget Sound in a drysuit and F1s off a boat. Love my F1s.

 

[Nwcid]

Are you a diver or a surface swimmer? In my experience stiff paddle fins, like the F1's are very poor on the surface, but amazing underwater. The softer and/or split fins are much faster on the surface, but don't perform as well underwater, unless you are sticking to flutter kicking.

The second year we had to do the swim test in fins for our PSD team I made the mistake of using my paddle fins and actually got lapped. I am a very strong swimmer so this was very out of place. Since then I use my Vipers if I am doing only surface swimming. For any diving I will be doing, even with a surface swim I will be in my paddle fins. I just inflate my wing, lay back and just do a nice easy kick to where I need to be.