HOG Equipment service class report

[cerich]

how about you outline how you would do it? Once I know that we can discuss it more reasonably. I'm open to discussion, after all I did release the schematics because of a SB thread and discussion....

@cerich: Thank you for your response.


Then we disagree on the purpose of a prerequisite.

Some people might be surprised to learn that, even in the U.S., there are some private medical schools which do not require an undergraduate degree for admission. As recently as 10 years ago, Johns Hopkins was one of those med schools, so it's not just the crappy med schools we're talking about here. (FYI, there are combo bachelor's degree/MD programs that exist, so technically an undergrad degree is not required for entry into an MD-granting program.) That being said, med school admissions committees are certainly interested in an applicant's performance in college-level courses covering the pre-med requirements (Bio, Physics, Math, Chem, Organic Chem) as well as the liberal arts. How a student performs in those undergrad courses is a predictor of how successful the student will be when challenged with the med school curriculum. FWIW, taking undergrad coursework in the natural sciences (Bio, Biochemistry, Bioorganic Chem) typically makes the first year of med school much easier for the student. While it's true that a successful med school applicant can hold an undergrad degree in a humanities discipline, for the vast majority of U.S. med schools (those accepting applications through AMCAS), that student must have fulfilled the aforementioned pre-med requirements somewhere, e.g., other undergrad coursework, formal post-baccalaureate program, Ph.D. program, etc. The point I'm making here is that undergrad coursework is directly relevant to the med school admissions process.

But we're not really interested in talking about med school admissions prerequisites and medical degrees, are we?
At issue is the tech cert prerequisite for the HOG reg repair class...



I took a PADI recreational nitrox class years ago. Please explain why I should do a crossover for the TDI nitrox card in order to take a class on servicing scuba regulators.
I have no interest at all in taking a TDI nitrox course (crossover or otherwise), much less paying for a card that's of no use to me.
I will not be learning anything in that class that will enhance my understanding of how scuba regs function.

Putting in place a "higher bar" for reg servicing is a laudable goal. It should not mean creating irrelevant class prerequisites.

I propose that you establish thoughtful and relevant prerequisites for your HOG reg repair class. Remove the tech cert prerequisite. Replace it with a prerequisite that, at least nominally, sets up the student for success in the reg repair class. If you wanted to, you could have all the students take a pre-test at the beginning of class to assess their knowledge of reg function theory. The Scuba Regulator Savvy book could serve as the source for the tested material. Such a pre-test would ensure that students read the book before class. Reading the Scuba Regulator Savvy book before class would be an example of a relevant prerequisite.

People should take all the other scuba training they want. That's up to them. It shouldn't be tied to a silly reg repair servicing course.

When I asked about the step-by-step reg repair manual, I brought it up as something entirely separate from an online course.
Dive Rite and Atomic Aquatics currently offer freely downloadable reg repair manuals for their regs. Unfettered access to such a manual would be extremely helpful for HOG reg owners.

An online course is a very good idea. At present, the HOG reg repair courses aren't being taught in very many locations and aren't being held too often. An online course would reach HOG reg owners in virtually any part of the world, even a Marine Corps base in Japan.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Chris, thanks for chiming in on this topic. The only complaint I have is the lack of training infrastructure. I live in southern NH and have no one around to do the training with. I'm signed up to take the class with DRIS at BTS but that is a 4.5 hour ride each way. I realize that things like this just take time, especially with a new manufacturer and brand. I'm sure if ScubaPro started to offer reg classes you would have no problem finding one as they have dealers all over the place, I have four within a half hour of my house. One other thing to consider is these classes are not exactly a money maker for the shops that are running them, Mike from DRIS posted about there BTS classes about a week and a half ago and so far there are two people signed up for the class, me and one other person. Mike was telling me he has had to cancel some of these classes due to lack of students, everyone is all talk on the boards but when it comes to actually stepping up and paying the money that's a whole different story. I'm sure if these classes were filling up and there was a weighting list more classes would be offered and it would be easier to access the training. What it comes down to is we have to do our part also by committing to the classes and actually taking them and not just whining about it on the boards.

 

[halocline]

Bubbletrouble, are you personally interested in taking this course?

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Bubbletrouble, are you personally interested in taking this course?

Bubbletrouble have you talked to anyone about taking the class? I would be very surprised if something couldn't be "worked out", you may not have a card at the end but that's not what it's about anyway. right?

 

[Brandon]

And plenty of motivated, mechanically minded students are turned away from taking classes at MIT each year too... I guess I'm missing the point here.

Their organization, their rules.

Yes, you've completely missed the point...and your metaphor fails on many different levels. We're not talking about a college admissions process here.

Or are we?

Some people might be surprised to learn that, even in the U.S., there are some private medical schools which do not require an undergraduate degree for admission. As recently as 10 years ago, Johns Hopkins was one of those med schools, so it's not just the crappy med schools we're talking about here. (FYI, there are combo bachelor's degree/MD programs that exist, so technically an undergrad degree is not required for entry into an MD-granting program.) That being said, med school admissions committees are certainly interested in an applicant's performance in college-level courses covering the pre-med requirements (Bio, Physics, Math, Chem, Organic Chem) as well as the liberal arts. How a student performs in those undergrad courses is a predictor of how successful the student will be when challenged with the med school curriculum. FWIW, taking undergrad coursework in the natural sciences (Bio, Biochemistry, Bioorganic Chem) typically makes the first year of med school much easier for the student. While it's true that a successful med school applicant can hold an undergrad degree in a humanities discipline, for the vast majority of U.S. med schools (those accepting applications through AMCAS), that student must have fulfilled the aforementioned pre-med requirements somewhere, e.g., other undergrad coursework, formal post-baccalaureate program, Ph.D. program, etc. The point I'm making here is that undergrad coursework is directly relevant to the med school admissions process.

That's an impressive amount of fluff, but you're conveniently ignoring that just like HOG... any University can refuse admittance to any applicant that doesn't meet their candidate profile, the needs of the institution, or the whims of the admissions board. Perhaps one of the board members didn't care for the applicant's haircut, the font they used on their CV, or their attitude.

HOG's candidate profile = technical divers.
HOG's gear market = technical divers.

Of course, if I don't fit the profile of a business's desired marketing group, clearly there's something wrong with that business. Because I'm awesome and deserve to have whatever I want, dammit.

 

[Brandon]

Bubbletrouble, are you personally interested in taking this course?

The real question is whether or not he even owns a HOG regulator...

 

[highflier]

Chris,
I am sad to see that this whole thread has upset you. I have chimed in several times with comments, but do not take that as I am unhappy, It is a public opinion areana, and it is hard to get the overall sense of somebody just by their words on a screen. While many may be confused I think few if any are upset/angry (as far as us divers are concerned, I don't know abou the shops) Yeah I wish you did not have the pre req. But I am still ok with what you are doing. I am commited to getting 2 sets of the hogs. Reguardless of which way you take the policy. Just do not go backwards as I chose the hogs so that I could self service.

Now the concept of free parts etc offered by some other vendors... that kinda makes me mad. Parts have a cost, charge me fair value! Do not play a shell game or place a bet on me missing my service cause I will eventually, then service does not make sense and I might as well throw the stuff on ebay and buy new.

I am one of those ppl that will learn to self service via a freind or self taught if those are my only options. Knowing that I can take the service class means that I can and most likely will be a safer diver. While I do not know if I will need/use any tech level training, A better understanding of Nitrox never hurt anybody, even those that stay on dry land.

So in closing, Thanks, keep up the good work.


Highflier

 

[divad]

Re the certification technicality: I have been invited to take the TDI/HOG class and I have no "technical" certification so I'm assuming the instructor is allowed some latitude.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

how about you outline how you would do it? Once I know that we can discuss it more reasonably. I'm open to discussion, after all I did release the schematics because of a SB thread and discussion....

Why should a HOG reg owner have to dig through a thread on ScubaBoard in order to unearth the schematics for his reg?
Post all of that info on the HOG manufacturer's website where it can easily be located and accessed by everyone.

In this thread, I have discussed several of the changes I would make. I will gladly restate them (and a few more) for you here:

1. Put together a PDF version of a step-by-step HOG reg tech repair manual. In this PDF, include crisp photos of key steps, torque specs, recommended tool list, detailed descriptions of each step during disassembly/cleaning/reassembly, helpful hints on carrying out each step successfully, troubleshooting procedures, exploded parts diagram, and the standard sizes/material/durometer for all o-rings and material composition of low pressure and high pressure seats.
   Make this PDF file freely downloadable on the HOG manufacturer's website.
2. Remove the tech cert prerequisite for the HOG reg repair class. Replace it with a prerequisite that, at least nominally, sets up the student for success in the reg repair class. You could have all the students take a pre-test prior to the class to assess their knowledge of reg function theory. The Scuba Regulator Savvy book could serve as the source for the tested material. Such a pre-test would ensure that students read the book before class. The pre-test could be conducted as a multiple-choice online test or as a written, in-person exam. Passing the pre-test would be a requirement for being admitted to take the course.
3. Work towards an online format for the HOG reg repair course. Put together a series of videos with up-close shots of the various parts of the regulator. Include hints/tips on disassembly/reassembly. Discuss the approach to troubleshooting reg problems. Demonstrate reg troubleshooting scenarios, e.g., i.p. creep, second stage freeflow, etc. Offer videos that go step-by-step through the HOG reg tech manual. To add value, you could even include a segment on the basics of regulator design and function, although students should already have a pretty good grasp of this if they were asked to take the pre-test. Animations would be helpful but not necessary.

Changes #1 and #2 could be implemented rather quickly.

Change #3 would understandably take time/money to develop. We're not expecting this to happen overnight. Perhaps something 1-2 years down the road would be reasonable.

 

[vondo]

how about you outline how you would do it? Once I know that we can discuss it more reasonably. I'm open to discussion, after all I did release the schematics because of a SB thread and discussion....

Where can we find these? Personally I have no interest in servicing my HOG regs, but this sounds like the kind of thing that might be worth carrying on my phone in case I run into trouble. (I already carry the service kits for this reason.)