HOG Equipment service class report

[cerich]

I'm not upset you posted it,quite the opposite in fact.

I appreciate the honesty that people are showing. Look, at the end of the day I'll do what I want and feel is right, but that doesn't mean that as the facts change I won't change my mind. It was a industry first, I'm glad I did it. Is it time to open it up more? I'm honestly not sure but I will keep a open mind.

I'd love to see arguments of why people may want the tech prereq dropped or the course opened to recreational divers. Right now all I see is "because I want it" versus the reasoned approach I tried to take (tech divers SHOULD know their equipment on a intimate level, it makes them better and safer divers). Does that apply to the run of the mill recreational diver? (and no, people on SB aren't the run of the mill, the passioj here for diving is much higher than the average once /twice a year holiday diver)

I would refer to keep the conversation going, we all learn.

BUT regardless of what I decide, if anybody expects me to revamp my web site overnight and get all the manual up there and a online course....step away from the drugs. I am not a web developer! EDGE/HOG is a newer and rapidly growing company. I JUST got the first full time employee other than me last week! Stuff cost money as well and ask any of my dealers that it sells faster than I can get it in. When that is the case I tend to allocate the funds to buying inventory as the first priority. I am NOT complaining, just stating what it is.

You know, in six years of posting on SB -- and posting some threads that went wildly awry, some of which ended up with some nasty personal attacks -- I'm not sure I've ever regretted starting one as much as I regret starting this one.

The HOG policy on reg repair has been in place for some time, and anyone here who wanted to start a thread to complain about it has been able to do so.

This thread was to report about the experience of taking the class.

I wish you guys would go start your own thread, if you want to continue this. I have already written to apologize profusely to Chris. I think his policies are delightful, and I am really unhappy to see him berated for them.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Folks who are not serious about DIY will not be paying the $$$ for tools, parts, and training.

Ya, I found out this is not an inexpensive undertaking. But it will be totally worth it when I'm finished.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I wish you guys would go start your own thread, if you want to continue this. I have already written to apologize profusely to Chris. I think his policies are delightful, and I am really unhappy to see him berated for them.

@TSandM: In an attempt to comply with your wishes, I asked that a moderator delete all of my posts in this thread.
This request was declined on the grounds that none of my posts were in violation of the TOS.
I'm not a moderator, so I don't have the power to delete posts or split off discussions into new threads.
I'm not sure that starting a new thread without the benefit of the previous discussions which have occurred in this thread would be the best way to approach the matter.

It was explained to me that ScubaBoard members are entitled to share their opinions and experiences, regardless of whether they are popular or controversial. And other members are also entitled to disagree with them in a polite calm manner. As with any conversation, threads many times take a meandering path through and around the initial topic...and that's OK.

Hey, I tried.

 

[cerich]

why? keep them here.

Look different views and opinions are what adds value to this whole thing. You aren't the only one, only the most vocal. Look at how many views on the thread. I personally REALLY want to get more input, agree with or not

@TSandM: In an attempt to comply with your wishes, I asked that a moderator delete all of my posts in this thread.
This request was declined on the grounds that none of my posts were in violation of the TOS.

It was explained to me that ScubaBoard members are entitled to share their opinions and experiences, regardless of whether they are popular or controversial. And other members are also entitled to disagree with them in a polite calm manner. As with any conversation, threads many times take a meandering path through and around the initial topic...and that's OK.

Hey, I tried.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I'm not upset you posted it,quite the opposite in fact.

I appreciate the honesty that people are showing. Look, at the end of the day I'll do what I want and feel is right, but that doesn't mean that as the facts change I won't change my mind. It was a industry first, I'm glad I did it. Is it time to open it up more? I'm honestly not sure but I will keep a open mind.

I'd love to see arguments of why people may want the tech prereq dropped or the course opened to recreational divers. Right now all I see is "because I want it" versus the reasoned approach I tried to take (tech divers SHOULD know their equipment on a intimate level, it makes them better and safer divers). Does that apply to the run of the mill recreational diver? (and no, people on SB aren't the run of the mill, the passioj here for diving is much higher than the average once /twice a year holiday diver)

I would refer to keep the conversation going, we all learn.

BUT regardless of what I decide, if anybody expects me to revamp my web site overnight and get all the manual up there and a online course....step away from the drugs. I am not a web developer! EDGE/HOG is a newer and rapidly growing company. I JUST got the first full time employee other than me last week! Stuff cost money as well and ask any of my dealers that it sells faster than I can get it in. When that is the case I tend to allocate the funds to buying inventory as the first priority. I am NOT complaining, just stating what it is.

Chris, congrats on the growth of your company, it is a big step to take on an employee and be responsible for there lively hood. I think this thread is great, I can't imagine this dialog going on between some of the large scuba manufacturers and the public on these boards. I'm starting to think of Edge/HOG like the small TrueValue down the street from my house, you go in and they sincerely care about you as a customer. Opposed to the large home improvement store in the other direction that does not even care enough to have cashiers in the store.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

As interesting and useful as this thread has been, it now seems like a boxing match between the manufacturer -- who has done the industry a great favor -- and one disgruntled diver unhappy about the manufacturers policy and requirements for an industry first public regulator servicing class. Quite frankly it comes across and childish, selfish, and ungrateful -- even if that's not the intention of this debate.

The fact that the HOG line of equipment is aimed at technical divers; with a class through a technical diving agency requiring students to be a technical diver is not going to change. Rather than trying to force the vendor to relent on this angle, perhaps people should lobby that the EDGE line which is aimed at recreational divers open up a service class with differing pre-requisites.

Just sayin'


Or perhaps this thread can be split so we can continue to follow discussion about the class report and can ignore a seperate thread discussing the details about whether HOG service classes should be open to non-technical divers -- a discussion I would be happy to not have to follow without outright ignoring the original conversation.

Agreed.....It's the crying and belly-aching by the aforementioned poster that's turned it into the boxing match.......too bad.
I don't live near an instructor, maybe I should start getting salty about it and start complaining on the forum about it.

I think it's great that HOG offers this training.....their requirements are not that tough to meet.
I am liking them more and more.......I'll be buying another deco reg soon.......It'll be a HOG. I've been wanting to try them out anyway.

-Mitch

 

[TSandM]

Every thread has the right to meander and morph into something not the least envisioned by the original poster. As long as the conversation remains civil, it doesn't violate the TOS, and moderation isn't called for. But it is well within the rights of the OP (in this case, me) to ask that the thread get back on track -- and it's within the rights of all of you to take it where you want it to go.

If Chris isn't unhappy about how this has gone, I'll relax. I like my HOG gear a lot. I like the fact that the company is the ONLY one in the business which will train ANY private individual owning its regs to service them, even if it won't train ALL of them. I was also very happy to see how straightforward the service procedure is, since I will be doing a lot of it.

I am happy with my drawer full of shiny new tools, and I'm looking forward to using them. And I think I may be pretty much done with this thread -- if anybody wants to know more about the class, or who to take it with in the PNW, just shoot me a PM.

 

[Centrals]

@TSandM: In an attempt to comply with your wishes, I asked that a moderator delete all of my posts in this thread.
This request was declined on the grounds that none of my posts were in violation of the TOS.
I'm not a moderator, so I don't have the power to delete posts or split off discussions into new threads.
I'm not sure that starting a new thread without the benefit of the previous discussions which have occurred in this thread would be the best way to approach the matter.

It was explained to me that ScubaBoard members are entitled to share their opinions and experiences, regardless of whether they are popular or controversial. And other members are also entitled to disagree with them in a polite calm manner. As with any conversation, threads many times take a meandering path through and around the initial topic...and that's OK.

Hey, I tried.

If no one is allowed to express his/her own view on any topic then what is point of having discussion.
As far as I am concerned your point of "argument" is totally valid. I felt the same.
We made our point and the rest is NOT important.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

At some point expressing a different view just becomes "crying", it then just "derails" the thread.

If that keeps taking place....it's called "thread crapping"....which is what Bubbletrubble's posts started to read like.

-Mitch

 

[deadbilly]

I think this thread is great. I haven't seen any bellyaching, rather a potential customer voicing his opinions about what could make him more than potential (i.e. an actual, and loyal customer). Those opinions were repeated because they were dismissed as bellyaching and responses generally tended toward either "suck it up" or "get a tech cert" rather than addressing the concerns as they were stated. Ultimately, I think what is great about this thread is that there is a public, civil discussion between an equipment manufacturer and his customers, free from PR-flackery or marketing speak. And that said manufacturer has clearly indicated that his conclusions are not rigidly set in stone and that he is indeed willing to take feedback. I think this (in addition to the reg repair being offered to non-dive shop staff) is truly an industry first (any industry).

I love my HOG regs, and I applaud cerich for making a great product and providing service instruction to anyone at all who isn't shop-affiliated. I also applaud him for being open to suggestions from his customers and for taking the time to communicate his motivations and reasoning. That said, I'll throw my lot in with those who disagree with the requirements as they currently exist. I have a cert card that would allow me to take the class, so I am not just "bellyaching" on my own behalf. I would like to see the manuals published, and the tech-cert removed as a prerequisite for the course. I agree with the reasoning that tech divers should know their equipment (and may be more likely to), but in no way does that logically follow to the conclusion that only tech divers are capable of knowing and understanding their equipment. This seems to be the argument given in favor of the prerequisite. Ultimately, I'm not trying to repeat the arguments as I think BubbleTrouble and others have already laid them out eloquently. I just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the discussion. In a better world, other manufacturers would read this and realize that availability and communication leads to happier customers who buy more stuff.