hitting head when using BP/W

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mattboy:
Okay, why do you guys think it's such a bad idea to turn the tank around?

As Tobin said...exposes reg to injury.

Plus...

Depending on the reg, it may make hoses take a big loop backwards...adding to the diver's cross section or profile...making a snag hazard in the worst and most difficult spot a diver has...behind their head...and a snag hazard of really important stuff...like your reg hose.

Hose routing will now have to come across the tank valve knob. This area should be clean and easy to reach.

Tank valve knob is now "backwards" to what most OW divers are used to increasing chances of turning the valve the wrong way. This may not be a big issue for the owner of the tank while setting up gear in a relaxed environment...but when things go bad this will add to the confusion. Also, given its complete wierdness, it will very likely be confusing to others. Keep an eye on that newbie DM...keep an eye on your bud! :wink:

Reg recovery is made more difficult...both arm sweep and reach around.

BP/wings generate enough smirks...now your gonna add some major wierdness? Lordy...you're gonna have to spend so much time explaining things to the peanut gallery that you'll never have time to dive. If they thought you were strange for wearing that metal plate on your back and swingin' a 7 foot hose around...now they're actually gonna have a good reason to snicker! :D

Sorry...I just think that your solution turns a little bity problem into a huge one.
 
jonnythan:
I kinda get used to it.

If I can't touch the first stage with the back of my head, it means that I can't reach the valve back there, and that's bad.

Why do you need to reach the valve back there? I was never taught the importance of that during my training, though I was taught to remove my gear underwater (albeit at the bottom) and then put it back on, which seems like one way to get at the valve if need be.
 
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the snag issue. On my reg, (MK15) the hose routing is actually a little better turned around like that; basically all I had to do was switch the HP hose to the other port. I looked at pretty carefully and had someone about my size put on my rig so I could see what it looked like. BTW, I'm talking about yoke; for DIN I have no idea how it would work out. But, with the yoke knob pointing in, it removes a potential snag, as the knob looked to me to be the most likely snag point. The hoses actually seem to protect the barrel from being a snag point, as they are near the end of the barrel and sort of span the "gap" between the reg barrel and the top of the tank valve, discouraging something like a monfilament line from getting caught in there. They don't route back away from the tank; still basically out to the sides. The LP hoses route in the same direction; I have a swivel, so this was unaffected.

The tank valve on the other side and the confusion it might bring to a DM or buddy is a legitimate concern. For me though, other than making sure the valve is on before diving, I'm not sure what real-life problem this would create. I suppose if you (or some else) had to shut off the valve in mid dive there could be confusion, but I have a hard time imagining why you would do that unless you had catastrophic reg or valve failure, in which case your primary concern would be getting air from someone else and getting to the surface safely. Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what added danger would arise from not being able to shut off the tank valve quite as quickly in that scenario.

Reg recovery with my set up is essentially unchanged; if anything it's a little easier to reach the point where the primary and secondary meet the first stage. I practiced it, and that's what I found.

Exposing the 1st stage to hazard is, I guess, another legitimate concern, but really, when I looked at it, it did not seem significantly more exposed. It's still not as far back as the outside of the cylinder. And I'm using the set up in open water; maybe in a really close environment this wouldn't be a good idea. But, the whole set up is still more streamlined than it would be if the tank was sitting a couple of inches off my back.

Anyhow, I'm not at all offended by the multiple posts not liking my idea, and I'm interested in other potential problems; it's very possible I've overlooked something. Because my plate holds the tank so close in, and my reg is pretty big, and I'm a fairly small person (5'8" 160lbs) my head was really hitting;I couldn't look up at all. It was either go back to my MK2, ditch the jetharness, or be really frustrated.

BTW, I tried Tobin's idea of "offsetting" the reg barrel to one side a few degrees, but that really messed with my HP hose routing.
 
mattboy:
BTW, I'm talking about yoke; for DIN I have no idea how it would work out.
I was referring to DIN, you may well be correct with yoke.

mattboy:
The tank valve on the other side and the confusion it might bring to a DM or buddy is a legitimate concern. For me though, other than making sure the valve is on before diving, I'm not sure what real-life problem this would create. I suppose if you (or some else) had to shut off the valve in mid dive there could be confusion, but I have a hard time imagining why you would do that unless you had catastrophic reg or valve failure, in which case your primary concern would be getting air from someone else and getting to the surface safely. Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what added danger would arise from not being able to shut off the tank valve quite as quickly in that scenario.

I don't see confusion about how to operate the valve being a huge concern. The left post on a manifold works exactly the same way....

You need to be able to turn on your tank. Dive enough and probability catches up with you. Charge your reg to check your pressure, then turn it off on the ride out, "helpful" DM / Friend / buddy etc. turns your gas off, whatever it happens. Being able to turn on your own valve is a worthwhile skill. Turning off a single underwater could in theory be helpful if you need to feather a valve because of a Freeflow, maybe have a runaway inflator/ want to stop the distraction of a free flow after you have a buddies regs etc. Off is nice, on is vital, but if you can do one you can do both.

mattboy:
Reg recovery with my set up is essentially unchanged; if anything it's a little easier to reach the point where the primary and secondary meet the first stage. I practiced it, and that's what I found.

Good idea

mattboy:
Exposing the 1st stage to hazard is, I guess, another legitimate concern, but really, when I looked at it, it did not seem significantly more exposed. It's still not as far back as the outside of the cylinder. And I'm using the set up in open water; maybe in a really close environment this wouldn't be a good idea. But, the whole set up is still more streamlined than it would be if the tank was sitting a couple of inches off my back.

Might be so, but you will adapt. By this is mean you will "learn" how much clearance you have, and start to use all of it.

mattboy:
Anyhow, I'm not at all offended by the multiple posts not liking my idea, and I'm interested in other potential problems; it's very possible I've overlooked something. Because my plate holds the tank so close in, and my reg is pretty big, and I'm a fairly small person (5'8" 160lbs) my head was really hitting;I couldn't look up at all. It was either go back to my MK2, ditch the jetharness, or be really frustrated.

Love an open mind. I think some here may not be aware of how close a Jet plate puts the tank, really really close.


mattboy:
BTW, I tried Tobin's idea of "offsetting" the reg barrel to one side a few degrees, but that really messed with my HP hose routing.

Worth a try, given the cost.



Good Luck,


Tobin
 
...couple of things...

I don't think you can compare a manifold to the backward orientation of a single reg.

The manifold is a different beast. It's a red flag to anyone that's around that something different is going on. I'm not saying that it would be harder for the one wearing the rig to reach and open a valve on the left side (except that I'm having a hard time visualizing a clean valve knob in this case where the hoses must cross over it). But it could certainly add to the confusion on deck as well as in an emergency. Heck...I see divers all the time trying to turn on and off a valve by turning the yolk knob!

I still think the biggest problem is in exposing the reg to injury. Maybe not so much in the water as out. I can imagine all sorts of ways it could get whacked just gearing up or when exiting.

I don't know...it just seems so unorthodox that it just can't be good. Maybe I just have a hard time thinking out of the box. Then again, maybe a jet plate isn't the best plate to use.
 
...besides...How are ya gonna blow dry your hair with the valve facing the other way! :D
 
Stephen Ash:
...couple of things...

I don't think you can compare a manifold to the backward orientation of a single reg.

The manifold is a different beast. It's a red flag to anyone that's around that something different is going on. I'm not saying that it would be harder for the one wearing the rig to reach and open a valve on the left side (except that I'm having a hard time visualizing a clean valve knob in this case where the hoses must cross over it). But it could certainly add to the confusion on deck as well as in an emergency. Heck...I see divers all the time trying to turn on and off a valve by turning the yolk knob!

I still think the biggest problem is in exposing the reg to injury. Maybe not so much in the water as out. I can imagine all sorts of ways it could get whacked just gearing up or when exiting.

I don't know...it just seems so unorthodox that it just can't be good. Maybe I just have a hard time thinking out of the box. Then again, maybe a jet plate isn't the best plate to use.

I can see your concerns. Backwards is different, not too hard to cross up some folks. I'd have to go mock up the backwards deal to really see if valve access is better or worse. I know when I reach for a single valve (conventional set up) often all I get is a fist full of first stage and hoses. This one of the reasons I "cheat" the tank around a few degrees. With the first stage aft, seems like you'd run into the valve first.......


Tobin
 
Me too, why do you need to get to the valve in a single tank open water dive? I understand in caves and with doubles with isolation manifolds but with a single?
I also find better balance with the tank lower and of course since I still use double hose regulators that is how it is supposed to be ---tank lower so as to place the main diaphram as close to the center of the lungs as possible. If I need to get at the valve I will just pull the rig off, we used to practice that in our 12 week long basic courses.

You can always drill another hole lower for the top band, this will allow you to further drop the tank. Another possibility, your shoulder straps are adjusted incorrectly. Lengthen the shoulder straps so as to drop the BP down into the small of your back. This is probably why it is sitting to high for you. N
 
I recall reading a story of a man who jumped in the water with his air turned off. He couldn't get to his valve and he drowned.

How's that for a good reason?
 
jonnythan:
I recall reading a story of a man who jumped in the water with his air turned off. He couldn't get to his valve and he drowned.

How's that for a good reason?

That story could serve as a good reason to do a lot of things differently, but point taken.
 
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