History of Diver Training

[Puffer Fish]

Diver0001, Excellent review of some of the possible outcomes.

I've seen some really talented people, who learned diving extremely fast (as I went direct to Instructor from OW diver, can relate), however, there is a lot more skill and knowledge to diving that just pool work.

I think today we do a fair job (with the exception of the Walter/Thal instructors) of teaching the guided tour diver, in calm, clear water.

While I was watching those new divers this weekend, all I could think of was how stressed they were, and how little it would take for them to be out of control. When I looked at their instructors, they looked about the same (it was actually difficult to tell the difference).

The problem would seem to me is that not all diving is resort diving, and the skills needed for those other conditions have to be cut out to fit the time. In the last couple of years, I've gone diving with newer divers in:

1. Surf - not one knew how to do an entry

2. Over rocks -not one knew how to do an exit.

3. In really strong current - ditto.

4. In very limited vis - ditto, ditto.

5. Where basic navigation was needed -same.

6. Where knowing knowing when to swim and when to rest and wait is needed.

7. Where basic buddy diving gas management was required.

8. Knowing when you need to stop and rest.

It seems, with the exception of a few brave instructors, all of the above has been lost from classes.

That was stuff every student I taught had to know, because they were things new divers needed if they were to dive.

I don't have an issue with the current training, just that what you get should not be an OW card, it should be a training card, that allows you to go to the next level, or allows you to go on those guided tours.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Been certified just under 6 years now. Talking to people recently certified and others certified around the time my parents entered school, it seems to me that training generally still prepares divers for the dives that they are trained to do...

A CMAS* back in the dark ages set you up to do adventurous dives with adventurous equipment (Vintage is cool, but improvements have been made). Nowadays a resort OWD prepares you for the usual resort group dive in the shallows following a DM.

What we have gained in better understanding and equipment has, instead of making us better divers, allowed standards to slip. At the same time, the move from exploration to sight seeing for most divers has allowed the differentiation of required training.

So... has training for the same types of dives improved: At a guess yes. Look at technical exploration diving. Have the absolute standards required to get the first card decreased: yes. Has the character of the dives changed to compensate for this decrease: pretty much yes.

Has safety suffered? Not as much as expected, even though you see some hair raising lack of understanding employed; Mainly due to restrictions on the diving done. Is there understanding that you need more thorough training for harder dives: yes. Could safety be improved by raising the standards higher: definitely YES.

Is the syllabus needlessly split up into baby steps for those who want the higher standards because they want to do more: pretty much.

Just my 2ct.

Gerbs

The problem comes when our new OW diver goes out on a boat and suddenly finds themselves in conditions they did not expect.

Had a great example two year ago during ITK. Was an OW dive, with a mix of very experienced and new divers. We get to the spot and anchor, and there is a major current, going in the wrong direction. All the experienced divers call the dive, the new divers, told it would not by an issue by the captain, go down.

Me and one excellently skilled DIR diver do the dive as a practice.

We get back to the boat and then spend the next 2 hours looking for the new divers. Thankfully we found them ok. Having done thousands of dives with lots of new divers year ago, in very similar condition, none of them would have gone in the water. Training is more than just practice.

Note: Ok, had one person that we had to go get, but they were from the midwest and had never been in the ocean.

 

[DCBC]

The problem would seem to me is that not all diving is resort diving, and the skills needed for those other conditions have to be cut out to fit the time. ...I don't have an issue with the current training, just that what you get should not be an OW card, it should be a training card, that allows you to go to the next level, or allows you to go on those guided tours.

I totally agree. If a program is designed so that a non-swimmer can flop into warm water and be "guided" by a DM after a 3 day training program, it shouldn't be compared to a program that produces a truly independent diver who is able to function as a contributing member of the buddy team.

In the past, you had to complete the equivalent of today's OW, AOW and Rescue courses and actually know how to swim before qualifying as a Basic/OW diver. Some of us still teach to the same level today and give the same card as the guy who takes the 3 day course.

I understand not everyone wants such comprehensive training and I don't have a problem with resort training programs. But when the card indicates that the diver is competent to dive independently, unsupervised, and dive anywhere in the world, I think that something's being missed.

I also agree with Rob that the nature of these short courses encourage an Instructor to tick-off the skills and certify divers who do not meet the standards. Too much, too fast, but the warm clear water environment with a helpful DM covers such inadequacies until these people return home and get it in their mind that they want to go diving...

 

[Cave Diver]

I have to agree, it's like Bob's (Grateful Diver) quote in my sig line.
That, I fear, is not a benefit to a shorter class; rather, it is a symptom of a poor instructor.

Or a symptom of the way we live today. In various extra curricular courses I've taken (not just diving) I've run across a certain percentage of people who just don't seem to take the class seriously. They constantly have other distractions going on whether it be cell phones/text messages, showing up late to class, showing up unprepared, doodling and passing notes to their buddy, or whatever. Ask them a question 10 minutes after class if out and they might have a 50/50 shot at getting it right.

I'm taking a class right now that has two people like that in it. One is an older guy who interrupts the instructor every 10 minutes to relate some life story of his to the point the instructor is making and the other is a younger guy who has to excuse himself every 30-45 minutes to take a call.

Yes, the instructor should do a better job taking control of the class. But in all the classes I've ever taken when the groups get larger than about 5-6 people it seems more difficult for instructors of any type to control these tendencies.

 

[Cave Diver]

While I was watching those new divers this weekend, all I could think of was how stressed they were, and how little it would take for them to be out of control. When I looked at their instructors, they looked about the same (it was actually difficult to tell the difference).

How much of this do you (as a group, not just Puffer) think this is partly due to the way that today's society coddles people? Everyone that goes out for the football team makes it. Everyone that competes in the sporting event gets a medal. There are no losers.

People aren't told to dust themselves up and get back on the horse anymore, they're told what a bad day the horse must have been having to throw them and that it's not their fault.

I expect a lot of people these days show stress when challenged because they've never been exposed to any real hardships during their life, like walking to school barefoot, uphill both ways in the snow.

 

[Walter]

Based soley on what I have heard and read it sounds like classes are more of a straight to the point then they were reportedly in the past. I have heard many people say they spent days even into a month or more of training on skills in the past to where now it seems more like a show me once you know how to do it and well sign you off type of training.

Not really. Lots of skills I consider essential have been dropped from the majority of classes. Also, even if a student does a skill perfectly once, I have no idea if that was pure luck or if the student actually knows how to do the skill.

That's not what I've asked Walter. Does a Basic/OW class today prepare the diver as well as the same class that was taught years ago?

I know, but the question, as asked is impossible to answer. Which Basic/OW class today compared to the same class how long ago? Some agencies have lowered standards? Others have not. Some that have lowered standards allow individual instructors to add requirements, others don't.

I would put SEI standards of today against YMCA standards of the past at any time you pick. I've watched changes to standards over the years. YMCA standards changed very little. SEI took YMCA standards and beefed them up a tad.

PADI standards today are a little better than PADI standards of 10 years ago because they now allow an instructor to teach skin diving before introducing SCUBA. They are a little worse than PADI standards of 20 years ago because they no longer require swimming. They are a great deal worse than PADI standards of 40 years ago because lots of skills were dropped.

Why have the training requirements changed so much?

It came about because in the late 70s PADI put marketing ahead of education. They dropped standards allowing courses to be faster and cheaper. Fast and cheap sells. Other agencies followed suit.

What was Scubaboard 10 years ago?

Ten years ago ScubaBoard was about 2 months from being born. On the other hand, there were several other active forums, including Diverlink and Rodale's Scuba Diving.

 

[DCBC]

How much of this do you (as a group, not just Puffer) think this is partly due to the way that today's society coddles people? Everyone that goes out for the football team makes it. Everyone that competes in the sporting event gets a medal. There are no losers.

People aren't told to dust themselves up and get back on the horse anymore, they're told what a bad day the horse must have been having to throw them and that it's not their fault.

I expect a lot of people these days show stress when challenged because they've never been exposed to any real hardships during their life, like walking to school barefoot, uphill both ways in the snow.

So your saying that because Society has bred a bunch of wimps, we should make life easy for them. If they have a hard time getting up in the morning to go to college, the college should cut classroom times to give them more sleep, make exams easier (poor things). Give people what they want.

I remember when you had to work for something to achieve it. SCUBA diving use to be like that as well.

 

[Sas]

I expect a lot of people these days show stress when challenged because they've never been exposed to any real hardships during their life, like walking to school barefoot, uphill both ways in the snow.

I dunno. I think pretty much every generation thinks poorly of the ones that follow them. Thinks they are slack, coddled, ungrateful, etc.

The world is getting better in my opinion: less violent, more tolerant, more technological progress, higher standards of living in the West at least and some developing countries. It just doesn't seem like things are going badly at all despite what older generations think of the ones younger than it...

 

[Cave Diver]

The world is getting better in my opinion: less violent, more tolerant, more technological progress, higher standards of living in the West at least and some developing countries. It just doesn't seem like things are going badly at all despite what older generations think of the ones younger than it...

That's kind of my point though. As things progress, certain skill sets are lost along the way. If we wanted to go on a hike through the woods, we had to damn near cut a trail with a machete. Now there is a paved path, with park benches and "scenic outlooks."

There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but the problem comes in when someone who has done 50 of these "excursions" now thinks that they're ready to hike through the Amazon rainforest.

Making things more accessible to the masses widens the disparity when there are presented with real challenges.

 

[Diver0001]

In the past, you had to complete the equivalent of today's OW, AOW and Rescue courses and actually know how to swim before qualifying as a Basic/OW diver. Some of us still teach to the same level today and give the same card as the guy who takes the 3 day course.

Yeah.... and that's the thing that makes it so tricky for people who want to take a diving course. Instructors can use exactly the same standards to provide training with *huge* variations in depth and quality.

It's not such a problem that these quick courses exist but how on earth are unsuspecting customers supposed to know what they signed up for? You can't expect someone walking in off the street to know enough to be able to judge that one instructor's course will teach them to "dive" and another instructor's course will teach them to "survive" the experience, hopefully unharmed. How are they supposed to tell the difference when they both follow the same standards and issue the same card?

R..