Question HH reb

[JJakub]

Hello everyone.
I have a question about hh reb.
Is it worth buying this reb?
extreme head rev C+
Is it possible to service and buy parts?
Will the reb work for a few more years?
Maybe it's too old and it's better to buy XCCR?

 

[Garth]

I have a hammerhead Rev C and find it does the job very well. Aside from the electronics the structure, frame and WOB is basically same as XCCR. As long as electronics don’t give you trouble you will get a good response for years. The build is great and if you have problems with the rev C you can wire in a petrel without much trouble. I would find other if the electronics are potted or if they can be worked on without trouble.
The plus is the 18650 batteries right? I have the 14000 batteries and they aren’t enough so don’t use solenoid and have installed a Fischer for petrel monitor. Works great.

 

[Dsix36]

I will no beat the dead horse about HH electronics. Just buy a unit that does not have those electronics, preferably Shearwater electronics.

 

[kierentec]

Neither the HH nor the Defender (replacement for HH) electronics are being serviced anymore. If the electronics go out, your only option would be doing something custom/aftermarket as the X-CCR head is not sold seperately as a replacement. Training might also no longer be an option since all of the mainstream agencies now require the instructor and student to be on the same unit and I'd be surprised if any instructors have hung onto their HHs for 10 years after it was discontinued.

 

[Garth]

Neither the HH nor the Defender (replacement for HH) electronics are being serviced anymore. If the electronics go out, your only option would be doing something custom/aftermarket as the X-CCR head is not sold seperately as a replacement. Training might also no longer be an option since all of the mainstream agencies now require the instructor and student to be on the same unit and I'd be surprised if any instructors have hung onto their HHs for 10 years after it was discontinued.

That is true about training unfortunately. Really made the older units obsolete unfortunately but if you train on an XCCR and dive a hammerhead with shearwater electronics I really don’t see the difference to be honest.
Some of the hybrid stuff people do with their hammerheads or modified XCCR that I see posted for sale are no longer stock units which makes you wonder how important a unit specific card has to be. I’m not an instructor and not affiliated with an agency. To my knowledge there isn’t anything in the course standards about needle valves on HH/XCCR but they sell those to people who were trained without them.

DonSix likes to stand up from a park bench with his controller wires dangling through the slots of wood so I don’t think you should avoid the hammerhead electronics all together from his statements alone… tehe

When a manufacturer upgrades the electronics on a rebreather I don’t think you have to retake the course, the concepts of managing PPO2 are the same. Moving from over the shoulder counterlungs to backmounted counterlungs also does not require another course, however some learning is required to manage the differences.

Main thing I would make sure is to not overpay for something that may require some creative modification or training to get it divable. I haven’t sold my hammerhead because I like it and it’s worth more to me than anyone who wants the latest and greatest machine. I’m not in that category and from what it sounds like even the newest machines have their own set of problems as they are next to impossible to work on. Like a new fancy car.

 

[macado]

I'll just add that I have no direct experience with them but Kevin Juergensen (Juergensen Marine) is now producing another set of electronics called the TigerShark. This can be added to an older Hammerhead unit or other units. I briefly spoke to him on FB Messager a few months ago and he said I could send my head to him to have this all wired in if I wanted.

It might be viable option in the future for unsupported Hammerheads electronics or Defenders with SG-1 electronics. I have no idea if Kevin will service old Hammerhead electronics but I think the answer is probably no.

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Again, I know nothing about these electronics. They still say "pre-order" but my understanding is there are a few people with them in the wild but it's hard to find much information about them online beyond a few posts.

I am personally not a fan of being an early adopter so I've kept my Defender with SG-1 electronics. I have a spare head setup with 2 monitoring ports and a needle valve so I can run it like a poor man's Fathom. Once my SG-1 electronics die I'll switch back to that head and figure out what I want to do with my other Defender head.

Jon (@kierentec) raises a bunch of good points. I do really wish I could buy an X-CCR head without buying the entire unit.

 

[mr_v]

@JJakub - I had numerous conversation with @Garth about HH because I wanted a project; his unit is robust indeed and was an inspiration for the idea. Ultimately, I decided that it was cheaper to get a second, used rebreather that is currently supported by a manufacturer than go HH route. Key reasons:

- It will be hard to get HH training which means issues with some boat captains
- HH units aren't dirt cheap. You're looking at several grand USD, as owners are still hanging on to their precious babies
- Upgrades won't be as cheap as you think, and you'll still have to do the wiring
- It is likely that you'll have to replace/service many components - again, not cheap

When you add things up, you're looking at $4-5K a unit with, probably, no training/cert. My friend just got an XCCR for a hair under $7K. It is a simple decision.

(Btw, until this summer I was in "electronics should be robust and not cause issues" camp. Mostly becauve I haven't dove as much as some wiser folks. Having a supported controller being shipped to me overnight changed my perspective on electronics/units I want to dive. It was a vacation saved and a lesson remembered.)

 

[Dsix36]

DonSix likes to stand up from a park bench with his controller wires dangling through the slots of wood so I don’t think you should avoid the hammerhead electronics all together from his statements alone… tehe

Nice try, but anything HH is still absolute crap, that includes honesty and integrity of the business in general.

 

[Garth]

Nice try, but anything HH is still absolute crap, that includes honesty and integrity of the business in general.

Well, there is a manual HH extreme unit with two Fischer connectors, no computers in Europe for $1,600 USD being sold now on Facebook. You can’t beat that. Buy two used petrel 2 ext computers or simply one and remove the extra Fischer and you got a fantastic rebreather.
Training is the challenge but IMO the XCCR and the HHCCr is basically the same thing minus the electronics. Now that I’ve gone mCCr I won’t be going back… ever.

Edit: I bought a used Petrel 2 ext for $550 just this past week. Literally 2 grand you could have a f’n awesome rebreather.
Let them sell their hammerheads… I’ll take the spares.

 

[rjack321]

I would pass on a HH unless you are using it for parts and/or the basis of a homemade CCR.