Help With The First Bp/w Rig

[dmaziuk]

Considering all the above, would 17lbs wing be sufficient or 20 would be a better choice (my current BCD is shocking 40lbs).

As per Tobin's math, +4lbs for empty Al80, +4lbs for the suit, -2lbs for the reg = 6lbs of lead (though I'd wear 8lbs myself). That plus -2lbs of a full Al80 plus anther couple of pounds for flashlight, knife, and assorted junk: about 12lbs. That's what you need for your gear to float. Which leaves you with 5lbs of extra lift in the #17 wing. (Of course, this assumes the lead is attached to the kit and you didn't ditch it and so on.)

The wing's other job is compensating for loss of buoyancy to wetsuit compression at depth. That's mostly for cold water diving in 7mm suits and should be a non-issue for you: if your 3mm suit is +4lbs, then you can lose 4lbs at the most and 4lbs of lift is all you need to compensate.

That said, I'm very happy with my 25lb Hollis wing -- DRiS gave a me a rather nice discount on it. Which is why I said "all other things being equal".

 

[tbone1004]

you shouldn't be overweighted in a SS plate with a rashguard. The AL80's are +4.4, and SS plates are roughly -6, so in fresh water you might be a little bit heavy, but not enough that going to a Kydex or Aluminum plate would be necessary in my opinion. If you were diving steel tanks, then it would be a different story.

 

[seeker242]

How is one supposed to set the rig before the class 100% correct if he is new to DIR? =)

By contacting an instructor beforehand and asking them what is ok and what isn't. Although, it doesn't have to be 100% but it should be kinda close. The harness and wing is a pretty big deal when it comes to the standardization requirements.

This is from the GUE fundamentals course description:

"Note: Prior to the commencement of class, students should consult with a GUE representative to verify equipment requirements. Whether or not a piece of equipment fulfills GUE’s equipment requirement remains at the discretion of GUE and its instructor representatives. Participants are responsible for providing all equipment or for making provisions to secure the use of necessary equipment before the start of the course. In general, it is better for the student to learn while using his or her own equipment. However, students should exercise caution before purchasing new equipment to avoid acquiring substandard equipment. Please contact a GUE representative prior to making any purchases. Information about recommended equipment can be obtained from the equipment considerations section of GUE's Web site."

 

[Oldbear]

The typical human is close to neutral, and even those with a *lot* of extra lipids are seldom more than a few lbs positive.

If we threw you in the water in your swim trunks and handed you 16 lbs of lead how long would you expect to tread water?

Tobin

I wouldn't have too tread water I would float. Not ALL people fit into mathematical models.

My complaint with you Tobin has never been your products or even your judgment; products I like and judgment I can appreciate and respect . It was the rudeness and closed mindedness when I called to ask a question about my past purchase and the back plate size. Yes you asked questions, but you also answered them yourself with your conjecture...all in an arrogant manner. I was hoping that you might of just been having a bad day, but judging by the PMs I received others have noticed this too. It is your business and you can steer your ship in whatever direction you want to. As a paying customer I choose not to be belittled by you. There is too many other good companies who do have high standards (or at least tact and social skills) when it comes to customer service.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I wouldn't have too tread water I would float. Not ALL people fit into mathematical models.

My complaint with you Tobin has never been your products or even your judgment; products I like and judgment I can appreciate and respect . It was the rudeness and closed mindedness when I called to ask a question about my past purchase and the back plate size. Yes you asked questions, but you also answered them yourself with your conjecture...all in an arrogant manner. I was hoping that you might of just been having a bad day, but judging by the PMs I received others have noticed this too. It is your business and you can steer your ship in whatever direction you want to. As a paying customer I choose not to be belittled by you. There is too many other good companies who do have high standards (or at least tact and social skills) when it comes to customer service.

My definition of customer service is to supply first quality products, provide prompt well informed support and to keep people from buying things that are either inappropriate or unsafe whenever possible.

Most appreciate it, but a few expect that we will sell, without question, anything the customer demands.

DSS sells a number of things that no other manufacturer I know does, two examples are our bolt on weights and 12 lbs lift scooter wing. Both seem to be magnets for those confused about how best to use them, and risks associated with their misuse.

We could of course do what others in the scuba industry does and simply not offer these items. Or we could try and determine if those interested in these goods understand how to use them, and appreciate the risks associated with their mis application.

Non ditchable bolt on ballast is of particular concern.

Long ago I made the choice that it was far better to risk bruising the occasional ego saying no than to live with the knowledge that I sold something that contributed to an injury or death.

For those feel that DSS is somehow obligated sell and ship whatever the customer demands I would encourage them to find other vendors. Rest assured there are many all too happy to ship anything to anybody without question.

That will *never* be me.


Tobin

 

[Oldbear]

Tobin,

You are missing it. All of the above is why people like DSS. It is why I liked DSS and still do. To this day I DO NOT have a problem with your judgment nor your products. It is your pompous and arrogant attitude in which you deal with people that is abrasive.

DSS products are very good...it is YOU or at least the way you chose to treat me on the phone and on SB that I have issues with.

I will let you have the last word on this thread as I will not respond to any more towards your comments here.

Michael

 

[Lorenzoid]

By contacting an instructor beforehand and asking them what is ok and what isn't. Although, it doesn't have to be 100% but it should be kinda close. The harness and wing is a pretty big deal when it comes to the standardization requirements.
. . .

Well said, especially the "it doesn't have to be 100% but it should kinda close." Instructors have heard of all of these brands and they can tell you in an instant whether it's a go or a no-go. In my Fundies class, another student showed up with a BP/W that was just fine but a reg set with a short (PADI-style) hose. She casually remarked that the GUE setup appealed to her except for the long-hose thing, which she thought she might skip. This was cleared up quickly in class, her hoses were changed out forthwith, and she was good to go. Moral of the story is that while it's best to arrive for class with close to 100% GUE-compliant gear, especially something as "pretty big deal" as the backplate and wing, even a student who shows up with something that is grossly non-compliant can probably get it sorted out.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Well said, especially the "it doesn't have to be 100% but it should kinda close." Instructors have heard of all of these brands and they can tell you in an instant whether it's a go or a no-go. In my Fundies class, another student showed up with a BP/W that was just fine but a reg set with a short (PADI-style) hose. She casually remarked that the GUE setup appealed to her except for the long-hose thing, which she thought she might skip. This was cleared up quickly in class, her hoses were changed out forthwith, and she was good to go. Moral of the story is that while it's best to arrive for class with close to 100% GUE-compliant gear, especially something as "pretty big deal" as the backplate and wing, even a student who shows up with something that is grossly non-compliant can probably get it sorted out.

Checking with your instructor is a good idea, and I will add that I have personally taken GUE courses in a DSS BP&W, many of my teammates have, and I am aware of no instance where DSS gear was deemed unsuitable.

However There is no way any manufacturer can claim their gear is "GUE Approved" as the GUE does not offer such approvals.

The course requirements are published and worth reviewing before *you* become the poster child for Doing it Wrong some Friday night during the gear lecture that just happens to be held in the class room of the dive shop the instructor is affiliated with, and all the other shops in town are closed, and the first dive is scheduled for tomorrow morning...........

Tobin

 

[Roman K]

close to 100% GUE-compliant gear

Yep, looks like I'll either talk to the instructor of will meet before to go through the gear.
By no following the 100% I do mean the minor (I hope) things - like I do like to have my transmitter on to record my air consumption data. Obviously I don't use as main source of data, but still AFAIK is not really DIR. Additionally, I don't use canister lights - as my dives just don't require these...

I have to say these comments are really useful - I guess I've done to many PADI courses to get used for LDS to sort out everything during the course (hence my initial idea re sidemount - one of the instructors has told me I just need 2 side Drings on the BCD to do the course),,,

Are there any books apart from the original "DIR" to read re setups etc on the subj?

 

[eelnoraa]

How is one supposed to set the rig before the class 100% correct if he is new to DIR? =)

No you don't need to, and you aren't expect to. There are a portion of the class, before hitting the water, instructors are to do gear check, initial adjustment for each students. Then the adjustment are continue to made throughout the class pending the feedback from students.

What makes the class more smooth is that you want your gears to be GUE compliant, so you only need small adjustment here or there, instead of you have to buy a different set of gears. Examples are like comfort harness, console gauges ... , wireless AI computers without brass gauge ... the "big" items, make sure they are compliant. If you are not sure, definitely contact your instructors. Other than that, you may actually find GUE gear requirement is surprisingly flexible