Help! Need to use drysuit next week - how?

[MARK_SHU]

Thanks to all those that have given advice and expressed concern here and through PMs.

I now have 10 hours of drysuit diving (in the tank).

I have to say it was really hysterical at first I havent laughed so much in ages, bobbing around all over the place like balloon!

Of course Im not an expert but it doesnt apear to be hard to master after a bit of practice.

Empty air, very slow feet first descent, working in upright position, ascend upright, dump valve always open, bouyancy from wing.

Just need to think ahead to handle the extra gas volume.

I overweighted myself to put more bouyancy control in wing over suit, that seamed to help, now Im reducing.

More time in tank tomorrow.

Thanks again to all those that helped.

 

[trevinkorea]

MARK_SHU

Glad to hear all is going well and that you are getting in some pool time.

I just picked up a new and different kind of dry suit and the pool time has been a real eye opener as was my first open water dive.

I hope to hear more from you. Perhaps you could share a little more about your learning experience and maybe it would help some of us to know what to practice a little more of.

I'll be hitting the dive tank myself this week since it's been a few weeks since my last self-administered refresher.

I'm also a little curious about what you need the drysuit for and why you are going with a full face mask. (just in general)

I'd love to try a full face some time and I'd really like to hear if you have any suggestions. But, of course for this I think I will opt for a good mentor. From what I've heard things can get really messy with that set up.

Anyway, good luck with your suit.

 

[trevinkorea]

I think I started a bit of a heated discussion with my post so I should probably post a reply.

I think when I mentioned that [B]I think this would turn out better divers than uninformed card holders that are delusional enough to believe that a little piece of plastic actually suggests they are qualified and skilled in a particular area?[/B] I started us off on the wrong path.

This was not a slam on the competent well-trained divers and instructors out there but rather a comment on the attitude that everything requires a course and if one does not take a course they will certainly die or at the least get injured.

I too like collecting cards. It's kind of a hobby, but I hardly put much faith in the almighty card.

Experience is the best teacher. There is only so much a competent, high quality teacher can help you with. The mentor is the one that will give you the most help. And, I would further add that a mediocre instructor is doing more harm than good. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that a large number of cards do in fact amount to nothing more than a poor use of perfectly good plastic.

To further my comment on the validity of being self taught to some degree. For someone to become a leader in their field, they must create a new way of thinking, they must experiment and they must go out on their own to some degree. If not they are merely following the trend. This being the case, why can't some skills be self taught in a sport like scuba. Is this mentality just a way of protecting out jobs or some elitist/macho thing NOTE - I am not referring to technical diving skills for an untrained person.

I have to agree with Jason B when he described the "holy plastic card" mentality. My first instructor tried to kill me, as did the "very experienced" card diver I was with a couple of months ago. I too would opt for the self-taught and competent diver over the one who simply has the most plastic.

Finally, sorry if you were offended, but I was really surprised by the number of negative comments the original poster was getting after asking very simple questions.

Please do not feel the need to reply to this post. I just thought I should explain my first a little more clearly as I seem to have caused this thread to rapidly deteriorate.

 

[Goose75]

Personally I see C cards like driving licenses. Many who have them haven’t mastered the basic skills but it improves the skills of the overall average. I drove a motorcycle since I was a kid and I didn’t see a need to get a motorcycle license. Many of my friends and family have driven them for decades without one. Four years ago, I gave in and went through the test. The test was a joke and I walked away with my almighty piece of plastic. Does it mean the bearer is a good driver? No. Did it improve my years of self-taught skill? Absolutely. I found that I had been doing things naturally for years that I never even knew I was doing. Instinct, practice and experience were taking over where my head missed some knowledge. ‘Why’ can sometimes be as important as ‘how’. Was I good biker before? Yes. Am I better now. Yes. C cards are the same way. They don’t make everyone with them good divers, but they improve the average skills of the population. With millions of us, that translates into less problems. Can you learn to master a dry suit without training? My first dry dives were with several people who fit this category. Is the overall accident rate in dry diving going to increase without a training course. Yes. The card may not be almighty, but it helps.

I’m not a high time diver yet but for what it’s worth, that’s my two cents.

 

[shoelessone]

i have heard of instructors who dont even really teach the class, just basically dive with you and give you a cert card when u r done or whatever.

Experience goes a long way, that is for sure.

glad to hear you are still alive

by the way, in case u didnt mention it already, I am just currious what sorts of jobs you are working on?

cheers!

 

[smb1014]

I have a feeling that this guy would want to teach himself sky diving as well. Please take instruction from a certified and qualified instructor.

 

[trevinkorea]

I have a feeling that this guy would want to teach himself sky diving as well. Please take instruction from a certified and qualified instructor.

Skydiving...hmm... sounds like fun!

I almost got a chance to self teach that one in my army days. It didn't work out though, but what a rush it would have been if I did manage to slip through the cracks.

Unfortunately, when I asked where the plane would land I was found out.

Maybe another time.

But, in all seriousness, using a Drysuit is a little different from jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

With enough practice, it's a skill that is easily mastered.

The dry courses I was offered (at a price of course even with a purchase of a suit) amounted to nothing more than doing an hour or two in a very shallow, small backyard pool and a dive with an instructor. If I were to take a course I would hope for a little more but unfortunately my experience is that few instructors offer much more. I learned a lot about dry diving by simply asking a few questions while on a fun dive that happened to have an excellent instructor along for the ride. Courses aren't always the best way to go. Experience and if possible an experienced person to bounce ideas and questions off is far more ideal. But, of course by taking a course you can also connect with one of these pro's so, that would be my only reason for taking a dry course if I ever decided to take one which I probably won't.

I'm not sure about combining it with a full face mask though unless one has previous experience.

I really can't understand why some choose to suggest that this guy is somehow a danger to himself.

If you read his original post it is clear that he wasn't jumping in blindly. He knew for the most part what questions to ask. He asked his questions in a way that suggested he had thought the thing through. He also has has to do the dive and claims that postponing it is not an option. He claims to have 3000 dives and so, is not what i would consider a newbie. He is spending time and practicing his skills in a controlled environment and obviously logging more hours than would be offered on a Drysuit course.

What about this would suggest he is incompetent or taking an unnecessary risk?

Perhaps, it would be better to post some tips that may be of use to him, rather than merely wasting his time, that could be used learning from other's tips, by criticizing his efforts to acquire the necessary skills.

Perhaps, I'm a little sensitive on this issue but what is wrong with someone doing what they have to do. Especially when they are trying to aquire the skills.

I had to help a guy who was critically injured as a result of a car accident. I did not have the training at the time and it was an extremely dangerous situation that I was faced with. By suggesting that it is always mandatory to take a course before attempting something new would also suggest that I should have let the guy die. I don't buy the argument. Let's cut this guy some slack!

 

[donooo]

I have a feeling that this guy would want to teach himself sky diving as well. Please take instruction from a certified and qualified instructor.

If I could find a good book on it I might.

So after three winters on Cozumel should I take a course in Drift Diving ? Do you think that it is to late to add Deep Diving ? Seems like the first dive is always deeper then 60 feet. While I'am at it, might as well make some instructor rich and take a boat diving course. Pretty soon I could be a Master Diver, it's only money.

I took a Dry Suit course, wasn't PADI, so it won't count towards my Master Diver. Four hours of lecture, about a third on how to get into the suit with out tearing it, another third on how to care and maintain for it. Last third was the nuts and bolts. How to roll out of a feet up, ( my grandson can do that ) and to use my BC on the surface for bouancy and my Drysuit underwater. ( experienced Dry suit users will argue that )

Two hours of pool time, half hour getting ready, half hour cleaning up and an hour in the water doing rolls in 8 feet of water. Now I am ready to go.

Two beach dives, this is where the instructor paid off as I had only 15 ( not 3000 ) total dives at this time. He helped me get my weight right.

So, it's been three years since I took the course and I haven't dove dry since. Do I need to drop another $250 on a refresher course ?

Most of the dive shops I know of will send a customer out with a DM for a Dru Suit orientation class. Not a "certified and qualified instructor". You need the "certified and qualified instructor" if you want the plastic card. There is a time and a place for instructors.

Where can I get a Sky Diving book ?

adios don O

 

[SDAnderson]

We each get to make our own decision about the advisability of diving in a drysuit without training - that's the joy (and burden) of being an adult. Evaluating the risk/reward ratio isn't easy if you don't have the experience to base your judgment on, I can only remind everyone that there are significant risks and that the cost of the class is minimal.

Anybody can make a mistake (or two) with their drysuit and have a buoyancy problem that can get you seriously hurt. Two years ago I watched a very experienced dry suit diver make a (mostly) uncontrolled ascent from 120 feet all the way to the surface. A summary analysis of the incident might read something like this: despite his training and experience, he made several mistakes; because of his training and experience, he was able to avoid being badly hurt. As it was, I spent 45 minutes with him doing in-water recompression to keep him from fizzing, another diver without his level of expertise could easily have been seriously injured or killed in the same situation.

Training is merely accelerated experience - in exchange for a few dollars and a few hours, you get the benefit of someone else's knowledge and experience. There are some things that can be learned on the internet but this board is not an adequate substitute for hands-on, in-water training, involving repetitive drills of physical skills and real-time role playing – in short, cyber-diving is limited because your learning is all book and no practice. If you skip the training and make it past ? dives on your own without getting hurt, you will have gained your own knowledge and experience and will have probably won the bet, but it's still not a bet I'd like to make.

Like I said, we each of us get to decide how much risk to take and how to best moderate that risk. Given that a lot of the diving that I do would strike many divers as nutso dangerous, it might seem incongruous that I'm such a wus about this dry suit class thing. I've learned, however, to push the envelope carefully - and when there is a way to avoid or minimize danger, to take it. Perhaps it’s not unreasonable that some would disagree with my advice, however a look through this thread shows that most of those who do disagree are seemingly drawing on a far smaller base of knowledge and experience than those of us advising extreme caution.

Choose wisely and dive safely.

 

[smb1014]

I know I was being a little overboard in the sky diving vs. dry suit comparison, but like with all training it definitely does shorten the learning and time it takes to master a particular skill and or knowledge. I, as well all of us here, don't want to see another posting in the accidents section of the board from someone who went scuba diving without proper training. I unfortunately have seen someone get hurt from a lack of training in scuba diving and it was NOT fun afterwards for the family and friends.